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When will tech workers start creating Unions?
I brought this up a couple years ago and everyone thought it was dumb because tech workers were in a "privileged position". Not sure thats really the case anymore with all these layoffs and AI looming over our shoulders.
So how many more layoffs before we start making Unions?
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- mattl 1y agoI used to work at the Free Software Foundation which is unionized. Glitch (prior to being bought by Fastly) was also unionized, but the unionization stopped after Fastly.
- DonnyV 1y agoBeing in a Union does not keep you from being individually fired. Did they discriminate against you? Did they retaliate against you?
- oldpersonintx2 1y agonever if you can't unionize FAANG, there is no point, its like the UAW but they never got into GM or Ford you will never unionize FAANG: the highest paid ICs will see no point, a union is just leveling them down and forcing them to join ranks with people they don't really care that much about the lowest tiered employees are fungible and can be terminated before they can organize HN will want to reflexively downvote this, but think it through...how do you unionize the entire engineering dept at a place like Apple? its not possible
- DonnyV 1y agoThis sounds like peasant thinking. Are you waiting for the king to say when its ok to unionize?
- normalaccess 1y agoWhat about the people that want to only have one boss and not be sucked into a collective blob that only cares about money? I am in a union and I have less rights that I did before because I can't work with my boss to figure out the best way to work. I am BOUND by contact and there are 400+ other people that I would have to convince to even change my schedule. Unions restrict the cooperation AND YOU. Your voice becomes one in a sea and is lost in the noise.
- mynameishere 1y ago[dead]
- anon84827820 1y agoFAANG employees are not immune to layoffs or offshoring. They have as much to gain from a tech workers union as anyone else.
- e44858 1y agoHow can a union prevent offshoring?
- normalaccess 1y agoThey can't
- Chinjut 1y agoFor the same reason, the entertainment industry will never unionize.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- oldpersonintx2 1y ago[dead]
- guywithahat 1y agoHopefully never; if tech/CS was heavily unionized work I never would have joined the field. There are a ton of unionized industries, if you like unions so much you should join them. If all the heavily unionized industries look terrible consider if there's a reason for that
- normalaccess 1y agoAmen to this! I have been hamstrung by the union and we are unable to improve our environment because some jobs only exist due to how inefficient the processes and procedures are. We literally have people that use their phones to take pictures on monitors, email themselves the photos, then print them out. Why? Because the new tools and systems require training and that's not in their contract. It's crazy-making.
- drewcoo 1y agoProbably never. See parent. If all the completely un-unionized industries look terrible consider if there are reasons for that, too. Again, see parent. The US has seen a great deal of anti-communist and anti-socialist and anti-union propaganda over the last century. The cries of antisemitism recently would indicate that Jews are next. We're following the Niemöller script! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_They_Came https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_They_Came
- guywithahat 1y agoDid you link a poem to make your point? Now seems like as good a time as any to remind everyone the national socialists were, in fact, ardent socialists, and their oppressive nature came from the belief socialism could only work in racially pure societies.
- jamietanna 1y agoGonna recommend folks read https://aworkinglibrary.com/reading/you-deserve-a-tech-union https://aworkinglibrary.com/reading/you-deserve-a-tech-union Very much believe that unions, and power to the workers, are very important!
- emeraldd 1y agoHonestly, what is the value proposition of a Union to Tech workers? Tech workers tend to well paid and given somewhat wider latitude and freedom than a lot of other professions. In most cases, there isn't really a reason we need to look to a Union for anything.
- therealguy 1y agoUnions are cool. If someone writes unions are bad he is a FAANG bot. FAANG fears unions.
- theideaofcoffee 1y agoUntil the highest paid ICs take to heart that they are still “labor” and not part of the ownership class, regardless of how much lottery ticket, second- and third-class, unpreferred stock they own, unionization will never take off. They will have to understand that really, they’re no different than the interns or the janitors employed at their respective companies. I believe it will become necessary sooner or later because even the oh-so-learned technorati have their breaking point. I hope that AI, in whatever form, hastens this. People are probably in for a rude awakening.
- bigtex 1y agoDo you think the union can get me a great salary working from home 5 days a week like I have now?
- amarcheschi 1y agoThey can establish better base conditions so that the top performers that individually bargain would obtain better conditions - ie 4 work days rather than 5 -. It's a silly example, it might not be 4 work days, but given that we have the actual 40hrs week thanks to striking and unions the gist remains. You are actually benefitting of the advances made by unions even if you're not part of one - in addition to your performance
- majewsky 1y agoStrong unions would be a tool to help you to continue working from home when management gets the RTO brainworms.
- guywithahat 1y agoThis is a key point people forget. Unions did not invent the 5-day workweek or healthcare, they stole the idea from private non-union jobs. If you think unions are going to provide some unparalleled advancement in ease of living you're going to be disappointed
- DonnyV 1y agoMy dude you need to read some history. Some things that Unions have gotten us. - 40-Hour Work Week & Overtime Pay - Child Labor Laws - Workplace Safety Standards - Employer-Provided Benefits - Minimum Wage - Civil Rights & Anti-Discrimination - Job Security & “Just Cause” Termination - etc, etc etc
- normalaccess 1y agoFord is responsible for the work week. https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/may-1/ford-factory-workers-get-40-hour-week https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/may-1/ford-facto...
- aerotwelve 1y agoTech workers will start creating unions once they get sick and tired of the current system. That's the one we all live in today where 1) Young developers are pitted against older developers in an effort to drive down the salaries of everyone in the industry. 2) You can be fired at any time for any reason. 3) The whims of management (i.e., workplace politics) are the primary force behind whether or not you are promoted, whether or not you are disciplined, your work assignments, and your career progression. 4) Your working conditions (see "remote work) can be changed at a moment's notice in an effort to make you quit your job, accept a lower salary, or as a backdoor justification to otherwise discriminate against you. 5) Layoffs can happen at any time for any reason (or a reason that's completely made up by your CEO -- see "AI" for the current made up reason of the year), and you have no recourse. You have no right to transfer to another position in your company, return to your job after the economic conditions improve, and often have to sign NDAs or agree to ridiculous conditions to collect your severance (if one is even offered) 6) Threats to outsource your job to a foreign company/"AI" are constantly in the air in an effort to make you feel like you deserve less, work more hours, and constantly audition for your job day in and day out. You're not exempt from any of this if you're a highly-paid IC who is reading this, by the way. In fact, you should know that they really resent having to pay you your big salary (that's their money), which is why you're always going to have a target on your back. You don't think the managers who currently make less than you get paid aren't resentfully eyeing your line on their spreadsheet? The way to stop all of this is to unionize. Don't you think it's about time?
- normalaccess 1y agoNo, as someone who is in a union at the moment none of those things change. I have seen all these things happen and more with the union's blessing (and sometimes it was their idea). The only thing that changes is a tap is installed between the corp and the union to funnel money out of our paychecks. As long as the union bosses get their due they don't care what happens to the rank and file.
- benwad 1y agoWhich union are you talking about?
- billy99k 1y agoUnions won't prevent AI or layoffs. This is like asking Unions to prevent using a car over the horse and buggy, because there will be job loss. Even if you could do this, why would you want to? Unions also generally don't work for tech workers because as an individual, you can can make more than the collective. Why would I want to wait for everyone at my position to get a raise before I get one? This works for positions that don't require that much skill and almost anyone can do.
- normalaccess 1y agoThis ^ The union I am in is actively hostile to improvements because so much of what they do is stuck in the mid 2000's. I was told by my shop steward that they will block automation at every chance they get because it will make the current staff obsolete and they refuse to learn new skills.
- dttze 1y agoAnyone who says unions don't work is saying that collective power is worthless. Despite the fact we are at the whims of the collective power of the elite. It is an absurd statement that doesn't make any sense.
- haidar47x 1y agoI agree. People in the medical fields, law, and some engineering disciplines have unions. Not because they think it works or doesn’t work but because it creates some kind of influence (can’t explain). We don’t have that.
- uslic001 1y agoDoctors are not allowed to unionize in the US. Nurses are a different story.
- BrandoElFollito 1y agoFrom the comments I wonder if unions mean the same in the US and in Europe. We have unions everywhere and they bargain for everyone. You do not need to be unionized to have advantages - they are the same for everyone. Unions can be annoying but ultimately the good outweights the bag: we have days off, sick days, firing is difficult etc.
- normalaccess 1y agoIn the US most unions operate closer to the mafia. You tow the line or the "family" makes sure you do.
- normalaccess 1y agoPersonally, I hope never. I am in one right now and there is no such thing as "brotherhood" but a grift to drain the corp like a stuck pig to the point of death. It's extremely annoying not being able to fix the problems you know exist because it's not in our contract. Or the DEEP fear of automation because my coworkers refuse to learn new skills and are timeservers and do nothing because they are protected. If you can avoid it, stay as far away as you can. The gains do not outweigh the cost. Rant over.
- burnt-resistor 1y agoWhen it's too late. The problem isn't just a lack of solidarity, but a codependency on corporations and a lack of worker-owned co-ops as a more sustainable alternative.