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> The comparison around deaths is only useful if those figures are primarily car deaths caused by running red lights. I don't know about the UK or US, but here

> The comparison around deaths is only useful if those figures are primarily car deaths caused by running red lights. I don't know about the UK or US, but here in France, the majority of pedestrians killed each year die on "protected" crossings. So whether those are traffic lights or "zebra" crossings, yes, that's a very major source of accidents. Addendum: Would love to see per-modality statistics on this for UK/US. Here in France, the preliminary stats for 2024 look like this: https://masto.bike/system/media_attachments/files/114/521/934/916/917/561/original/53f93afd6479ed05.png https://masto.bike/system/media_attachments/files/114/521/93... The table shows the deaths per modality (leftmost column, "tués") and in collision with which modality they were killed (and "sans tiers" for "no counterparty"). Needless to say, cars and trucks are dominating the "who kills the most people" contest, far outweighing their percentage in transport usage. Source: https://www.onisr.securite-routiere.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/2025-01/2025%2001%2030_ONISR_Accidentalit%C3%A9_Bilan_provisoire_2024_v8ter.pdf https://www.onisr.securite-routiere.gouv.fr/sites/default/fi...

matsemann 1y ago
The norwegian road authorities (SVV) has the same stats, most accidents happen on a pedestrian/zebra crossing. So they misuse that statistics to claim it's not safe to build... So kids being dropped off the school bus at a road with 50 km/h that needs to cross, where the parents are asking for a safe way to cross, are being told that "no, pedestrian crossings aren't actually more safe, they give a false sense of security", and thus rather have the kids run over the road at their own whim..
- black_puppydog 1y ago
  couldn't be that 99.9% of pedestrians cross the road on "secured" crossings, huh? :D Yeah, stats are difficult.
  - BobaFloutist 1y ago
    I mean it's the counterargument to the claim that "pedestrians need to take more responsibility and stop jaywalking/crossing on red/wearing dark colors and running into moving traffic at night"
- sokoloff 1y ago
  Do the traffic laws not provide for "blinking red lights on a school bus mandates traffic to stop in both directions" and with extremely heavy penalties an no tolerance for violations? Here, the school buses leave those lights flashing while students unload and while they cross to the other side of the street. That seems like it would allow school kids to cross the road much more safely than painted lines would.
  - matsemann 1y ago
    No, we don't really have dedicated school buses here in that sense. They're just normal buses where we in remote areas make the time table sync up with when people go to/from school. (And you may still need to cross the road safely at other times) This viral video is from where I grew up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp4gouR2Ei4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp4gouR2Ei4 The Volvo truck that juuust manages to stop when kids are running out behind the bus.

matsemann 1y ago

The norwegian road authorities (SVV) has the same stats, most accidents happen on a pedestrian/zebra crossing. So they misuse that statistics to claim it's not safe to build... So kids being dropped off the school bus at a road with 50 km/h that needs to cross, where the parents are asking for a safe way to cross, are being told that "no, pedestrian crossings aren't actually more safe, they give a false sense of security", and thus rather have the kids run over the road at their own whim..

black_puppydog 1y ago
couldn't be that 99.9% of pedestrians cross the road on "secured" crossings, huh? :D Yeah, stats are difficult.
- BobaFloutist 1y ago
  I mean it's the counterargument to the claim that "pedestrians need to take more responsibility and stop jaywalking/crossing on red/wearing dark colors and running into moving traffic at night"
sokoloff 1y ago
Do the traffic laws not provide for "blinking red lights on a school bus mandates traffic to stop in both directions" and with extremely heavy penalties an no tolerance for violations? Here, the school buses leave those lights flashing while students unload and while they cross to the other side of the street. That seems like it would allow school kids to cross the road much more safely than painted lines would.
- matsemann 1y ago
  No, we don't really have dedicated school buses here in that sense. They're just normal buses where we in remote areas make the time table sync up with when people go to/from school. (And you may still need to cross the road safely at other times) This viral video is from where I grew up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp4gouR2Ei4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp4gouR2Ei4 The Volvo truck that juuust manages to stop when kids are running out behind the bus.