4 ms·

Because, relatively speaking, it solves the distribution problem. Distributing to your set of servers is easier than distributing to the set of desktops.

gjsman-1000 1y ago
Which also goes to show how backwards Linux package distribution is at this point. If you’re a small company, you can either build a web app which works everywhere; or you can deal with a distribution pushing out a buggy 3-year-old release against your will, with users harassing you about bugs. Packaging on Linux for normal desktop apps was dead on arrival. It was never viable except for niche open source apps. The resistance to this fact makes the failure of the Linux desktop somewhat self-inflicted.
- jollyllama 1y ago
  Sure, but this isn't particular to Linux. On what platform is it better? In terms of developer experience, web apps just beat distributing to the end-user device every time.
  - gjsman-1000 1y ago
    Every other platform. Windows, Mac? Bundle your own updater. Or use Steam. Download one file and run with a click. PlayStation? Nintendo? Submit it, wait about two weeks, and out it goes. The Linux desktop is single handedly the worst distribution platform for an app developer, both in fragmentation and being unable to update your own software. The Linux desktop also had the arrogance to claim developers should do it their preferred way; and to harass devs for using tools like Flatpak. Then they wonder and complain and can’t understand why devs refuse to make Linux versions even for cross-platform frameworks. The idea that someone like Adobe should make a package for each distribution, and negotiate with each distribution if they are sending out some ancient version of Acrobat, was a stupid power-trip philosophy on day one with none of the clout required. Even Apple doesn’t reserve the right to stonewall releases purely because of version numbers.
    - jollyllama 1y ago
      > Windows, Mac You're neglecting all the parts where you've got to sign your install binaries. > Steam This is a third party marketplace that exists specifically to solve this problem and it carries all the baggage of any other third party marketplace, in the abstract. > Video games I'm not really shipping in these environments but I doubt it's that easy. > Apple They will happily stonewall you on many other small issues, however.
      - gjsman-1000 1y ago
        > You're neglecting all the parts where you've got to sign your install binaries. This takes less than 15 minutes when you know how to do it. Arguing with a distribution takes weeks. Arguing with dozens of distributions could take months. You are approaching this solely as a solo indie dev would - which is why, with few exceptions, only solo dev software is on Linux. > They will happily stonewall you on many other small issues, however. You should see even a fraction of what developers on Linux have been stonewalled over. I will literally take Apple.
    - zevon 1y ago
      Who or what is this "the Linux desktop" you speak of? ;)
  - Pet_Ant 1y ago
    > On what platform is it better? iOS
    - jollyllama 1y ago
      It's not better for developers on iOS. There are loads of complaints about the costs imposed on devs and the hoops they have to jump through to publish in the app store.
      - gjsman-1000 1y ago
        Linux repositories are objectively worse. Unclear guidelines, zero publishing control, patches against your will, removal of donation links or warnings if you anger the distribution maintainers, having to do this over and over dozens of times, I would take Apple any day. And as you can see, 99.9% of developers took Apple’s route. Market share can only partially explain this, as even tiny platforms like Palm had better support than Linux.
        const_cast 1y ago
        > And as you can see, 99.9% of developers took Apple’s route Um, well no they didn't, because most things are web applications. And most software actually targets Windows. And then most phone software that's big is cross platform. Apples' model is cool, but it certainly has a lot of drawbacks, and in many ways they did not win. They, too, lost to the web.
neepi 1y ago
At the cost of a generally worse end user experience and no offline ability. I am glad Apple didn't do that and stayed native for nearly everything. This is a big selling point for me.
- jollyllama 1y ago
  > At the cost of a generally worse end user experience and no offline ability. Yes. This is a cost and a benefit you weigh according to the capabilities of your development team. If there is nobody to outcompete you, that is factor into the decision.
  - neepi 1y ago
    What happened to the customer in that line of thinking?
    - jollyllama 1y ago
      "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good."
      - neepi 1y ago
        I read that as "We feel the customer be happy with mediocre"
        cassianoleal 1y ago
        Yeah... I don't think happy is even a consideration. Due to the lack of choice, the customer will have to content even if the experience is way off. As long as all the competition is more or less as bad as your product, there's very little incentive to improve on that.
        neepi 1y ago
        Every time someone ships an Electron app to my computer it feels like I am paying for their reduction in development costs with my hardware.

gjsman-1000 1y ago

Which also goes to show how backwards Linux package distribution is at this point. If you’re a small company, you can either build a web app which works everywhere; or you can deal with a distribution pushing out a buggy 3-year-old release against your will, with users harassing you about bugs. Packaging on Linux for normal desktop apps was dead on arrival. It was never viable except for niche open source apps. The resistance to this fact makes the failure of the Linux desktop somewhat self-inflicted.

jollyllama 1y ago
Sure, but this isn't particular to Linux. On what platform is it better? In terms of developer experience, web apps just beat distributing to the end-user device every time.
- gjsman-1000 1y ago
  Every other platform. Windows, Mac? Bundle your own updater. Or use Steam. Download one file and run with a click. PlayStation? Nintendo? Submit it, wait about two weeks, and out it goes. The Linux desktop is single handedly the worst distribution platform for an app developer, both in fragmentation and being unable to update your own software. The Linux desktop also had the arrogance to claim developers should do it their preferred way; and to harass devs for using tools like Flatpak. Then they wonder and complain and can’t understand why devs refuse to make Linux versions even for cross-platform frameworks. The idea that someone like Adobe should make a package for each distribution, and negotiate with each distribution if they are sending out some ancient version of Acrobat, was a stupid power-trip philosophy on day one with none of the clout required. Even Apple doesn’t reserve the right to stonewall releases purely because of version numbers.
  - jollyllama 1y ago
    > Windows, Mac You're neglecting all the parts where you've got to sign your install binaries. > Steam This is a third party marketplace that exists specifically to solve this problem and it carries all the baggage of any other third party marketplace, in the abstract. > Video games I'm not really shipping in these environments but I doubt it's that easy. > Apple They will happily stonewall you on many other small issues, however.
    - gjsman-1000 1y ago
      > You're neglecting all the parts where you've got to sign your install binaries. This takes less than 15 minutes when you know how to do it. Arguing with a distribution takes weeks. Arguing with dozens of distributions could take months. You are approaching this solely as a solo indie dev would - which is why, with few exceptions, only solo dev software is on Linux. > They will happily stonewall you on many other small issues, however. You should see even a fraction of what developers on Linux have been stonewalled over. I will literally take Apple.
  - zevon 1y ago
    Who or what is this "the Linux desktop" you speak of? ;)
- Pet_Ant 1y ago
  > On what platform is it better? iOS
  - jollyllama 1y ago
    It's not better for developers on iOS. There are loads of complaints about the costs imposed on devs and the hoops they have to jump through to publish in the app store.
    - gjsman-1000 1y ago
      Linux repositories are objectively worse. Unclear guidelines, zero publishing control, patches against your will, removal of donation links or warnings if you anger the distribution maintainers, having to do this over and over dozens of times, I would take Apple any day. And as you can see, 99.9% of developers took Apple’s route. Market share can only partially explain this, as even tiny platforms like Palm had better support than Linux.
      - const_cast 1y ago
        > And as you can see, 99.9% of developers took Apple’s route Um, well no they didn't, because most things are web applications. And most software actually targets Windows. And then most phone software that's big is cross platform. Apples' model is cool, but it certainly has a lot of drawbacks, and in many ways they did not win. They, too, lost to the web.

neepi 1y ago

At the cost of a generally worse end user experience and no offline ability. I am glad Apple didn't do that and stayed native for nearly everything. This is a big selling point for me.

jollyllama 1y ago
> At the cost of a generally worse end user experience and no offline ability. Yes. This is a cost and a benefit you weigh according to the capabilities of your development team. If there is nobody to outcompete you, that is factor into the decision.
- neepi 1y ago
  What happened to the customer in that line of thinking?
  - jollyllama 1y ago
    "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good."
    - neepi 1y ago
      I read that as "We feel the customer be happy with mediocre"
      - cassianoleal 1y ago
        Yeah... I don't think happy is even a consideration. Due to the lack of choice, the customer will have to content even if the experience is way off. As long as all the competition is more or less as bad as your product, there's very little incentive to improve on that.
        neepi 1y ago
        Every time someone ships an Electron app to my computer it feels like I am paying for their reduction in development costs with my hardware.