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Out of curiosity, despite its flaws and setbacks, what countries or organizations are in a better position to lecture others on those matters? Russia? China? I

Out of curiosity, despite its flaws and setbacks, what countries or organizations are in a better position to lecture others on those matters? Russia? China? Iran?

seydor 1y ago
The US. The EU is a bureaucratic institution, not a democratic one, and arguably doesn't have more legitimacy than its current bureaucrats at any time. At this time there are 0 people worth talking about in the Commission or the council. Despite the flaws of its president, the US has democratic checks and balances
- dinfinity 1y ago
  [flagged]
- ChocolateGod 1y ago
  > The US. The EU is a bureaucratic institution, not a democratic one, The US has a democratic system where the President is ultimately voted for by an unelected electoral college who can refuse to vote for the candidate their state voted for and has ended up with the candidate with most votes loosing. Then said president can change the countries top court on obviously political lines and re-interpret existing laws and the constitution. > At this time there are 0 people worth talking about in the Commission or the council The European Commission has no need to play popularity contests, it's accountable to the heads of governments, not randoms on social media.
  - seydor 1y ago
    > it's accountable to the heads of governments The EU actively engages in selecting and canceling heads of governments in EU countries. There has been 0 cases where the head of the commision was held accountable for something. Actually the current head has been found guilty by the EU court for hiding text messages. Who is going to hold her accountable and how ? I m all for the EU but defending its despicable leadership with arguments that reverse reality is not doing any favors to anyone
    - ChocolateGod 1y ago
      > The EU actively engages in selecting and canceling heads of governments in EU countries Please link an example of the European Commission cancelling a government or election.
      - nickslaughter02 1y ago
        "Thierry Breton, the European Union’s former internal market commissioner, admitted in a French TV interview at the end of last week that the Romanian Constitutional Court (CCR) bowed to EU pressure. It annulled the country’s presidential elections last month, following the first-round victory of the Eurosceptic and anti-NATO, right-wing populist candidate, Călin Georgescu." https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/former-censorship-tsar-admits-eu-role-in-annulling-romanian-election/ https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/former-censor...
        libertine 1y ago
        > It annulled the country’s presidential elections last month, following the first-round victory of the Eurosceptic and anti-NATO, right-wing populist candidate, Călin Georgescu. You mean the fellow who illegally received undeclared external foreign funding? More concretely, from Russia, a declared state sponsor of terrorism?
        gls2ro 1y ago
        Where does he says the CCR bowed to the EU pressure? I followed the link that says _admitted_ and there goes to a Romanian website and they make a similar claim but as far as I can see he talks about applying the laws to protect against interference and not about making CCR decide something. A link to other website that also does not provide any evidence is not evidence even if it looks like a citation.
      - seydor 1y ago
        https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-10-2025-001112_EN.html https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-10-2025-0011... https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/P-10-2025-000150_EN.html https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/P-10-2025-0001...
  - lttlrck 1y ago
    The US doesn't have popular voting system. There are good reasons for it, and in no way does it make the US non-democratic. I don't particularly like the Electoral College - but the history and the cases when members voted against the people are interesting and in some (many?) cases, examples of checks and balances. Checks and balances don't always align with your desires. That's a feature of democracy not a failure.
    - ChocolateGod 1y ago
      > in no way does it make the US non-democratic. I wasn't trying to claim the US is non-democratic, I was pointing out to the author of the prior comment that the US system isn't perfect either.
    - dataflow 1y ago
      > The US doesn't have popular voting system. There are good reasons for it, and in no way does it make the US non-democratic. Presumably if my votes counted a million times more than yours, you wouldn't say it's still a democracy, right? The extreme here is obviously a single ruler whose vote counts more than everyone else's combined. Where do you draw the line here?
      - illiac786 1y ago
        You are saying, if it’s not direct popular vote, it’s not democratic. Germany and the US are then no democracies by this standard, and I am sure there are much more. I believe UK also not. That’s your definition, but then I’d like to understand what you call these form of government and how you differentiate from a country like russia, which is also holding elections. The way you phrase it is very binary: either a country has popular vote or it’s the same as the least democratic countries.
        dataflow 1y ago
        > The way you phrase it is very binary: either a country has popular vote or it’s the same as the least democratic countries. No. I merely pointed out that we have two extremes and that a line needs to be drawn somewhere, and thus asked where the parent commenter draws the line. That's it. I never suggested anything about where I believe the line should be drawn.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- libertine 1y ago
  Didn't the current president of the US say that his 2016 election was stolen and triggered an insurrection, and then proceed to pardon those who attacked democratic institutions? Isn't he now seeking to dismantle all the checks and balances, all while doing crypto dumps, enabling him to receive money from undisclosed sources? This is your democratic reference? > At this time there are 0 people worth talking about in the Commission or the council. What's with the cult of personality? Why do you need someone worth talking about? For example, everyone talks about Trump for all the wrong reasons, does that mean that's worth it? It just sounds like you don't know much about the EU.
  - l11r 1y ago
    Trump will leave office in 2028 just like any other US president. The only difference between now and then is extreme polarization all over the world because a lot of emerging problems. I am originally from Russia and I cannot read this seriously. Yes, there are problems in US democracy. But it still works and LIGHT YEARS ahead of what you can see in Russia. Those comparisons with Nazi Germany and other oppressive regimes are just insane. They devalue words, and you just won't find the right ones when shit really hits the fan.
    - hobs 1y ago
      There's been plenty of indications that's not true. Trump has been floating a third term and a Trump regime with his children. He said the election was stolen. He tried to steal it himself. You are basically saying "Well TODAY the United States is fine!" but if you look at the trendline Russia is basically still shit, and we now have an insurrectionist as a President whose spending a significant portion of his time destroying American institutions as far beyond repair as he can.
    - libertine 1y ago
      > Trump will leave office in 2028 just like any other US president. Trump has been openly playing with the idea of a third term, and has spoken about ways of achieving this. What makes you so sure he will leave office in 2028? > I am originally from Russia and I cannot read this seriously. Yes, there are problems in US democracy. But it still works and LIGHT YEARS ahead of what you can see in Russia. I don't understand where you're getting the idea of comparing with Russia, Nazi Germany or other oppresive regimes. I asked the question about what other countries and organizations are in a better position to lecture about democracy. Acknowledging that the USA is currently in an institutional and democratic crisis doesn't mean they're Russia; it means they're on the wrong trajectory.
- lawn 1y ago
  It's frankly laughable to claim that the US still has democratic checks and balances with all the shit Trump and his gang has done.
  - lttlrck 1y ago
    The checks and balances are there. But they don't always "check and balance" the way you want them to. Same in the EU. In this very comment section there are people abdicating to the courts, saying they'll block this proposal. The EUs checks and balance also work slowly and not always in your favor.
Zealotux 1y ago
None? I just think the EU should stop acting holier-than-thou when it has been actively attacking individual freedoms and privacy for years now.
- libertine 1y ago
  But how are they acting holier-than-thou?
  - shitlibertine 1y ago
    [dead]
sdoering 1y ago
Any institution that does not kill thousands every year: Annual Deaths (Recent Years): - Mediterranean Sea 2,000–3,000+ (60% drownings) - Pushbacks/Frontex Several hundred (2,000 deaths linked to Frontex actions) - Land Borders/Camps Dozens to hundreds (Winter peaks, underreported) There are by far too few NGOs or journalists looking into the despicable practices of the EU - but we Europeans definitely should not sit oh the high horse and preach about human rights to anyone. It is a disgrace what we as a European people let our elected officials get away with.
- snehk 1y ago
  Australia hat a similar situation. They cut that number down to basically zero when they publicly announced that no one entering Australia that way would ever be able to settle in Australia in any way.
Gud 1y ago
Switzerland.
hulitu 1y ago
> Out of curiosity, despite its flaws and setbacks, what countries or organizations are in a better position to lecture others on those matters? One should try living in more than one country. After some time, one might realize, that the adjective "better" has no place in one's sentence.
- libertine 1y ago
  I find it odd that one needs to live in more than one country to be able to make a judgment on the use of the adjective better. But I'll take the bait, let's say someone who lived in Syria during the Assad rule and then changed to the US, will that person come to that realization?

Out of curiosity, despite its flaws and setbacks, what countries or organizations are in a better position to lecture others on those matters? Russia? China? Iran?

seydor 1y ago

The US. The EU is a bureaucratic institution, not a democratic one, and arguably doesn't have more legitimacy than its current bureaucrats at any time. At this time there are 0 people worth talking about in the Commission or the council. Despite the flaws of its president, the US has democratic checks and balances

dinfinity 1y ago
[flagged]
ChocolateGod 1y ago
> The US. The EU is a bureaucratic institution, not a democratic one, The US has a democratic system where the President is ultimately voted for by an unelected electoral college who can refuse to vote for the candidate their state voted for and has ended up with the candidate with most votes loosing. Then said president can change the countries top court on obviously political lines and re-interpret existing laws and the constitution. > At this time there are 0 people worth talking about in the Commission or the council The European Commission has no need to play popularity contests, it's accountable to the heads of governments, not randoms on social media.
- seydor 1y ago
  > it's accountable to the heads of governments The EU actively engages in selecting and canceling heads of governments in EU countries. There has been 0 cases where the head of the commision was held accountable for something. Actually the current head has been found guilty by the EU court for hiding text messages. Who is going to hold her accountable and how ? I m all for the EU but defending its despicable leadership with arguments that reverse reality is not doing any favors to anyone
  - ChocolateGod 1y ago
    > The EU actively engages in selecting and canceling heads of governments in EU countries Please link an example of the European Commission cancelling a government or election.
    - nickslaughter02 1y ago
      "Thierry Breton, the European Union’s former internal market commissioner, admitted in a French TV interview at the end of last week that the Romanian Constitutional Court (CCR) bowed to EU pressure. It annulled the country’s presidential elections last month, following the first-round victory of the Eurosceptic and anti-NATO, right-wing populist candidate, Călin Georgescu." https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/former-censorship-tsar-admits-eu-role-in-annulling-romanian-election/ https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/former-censor...
      - libertine 1y ago
        > It annulled the country’s presidential elections last month, following the first-round victory of the Eurosceptic and anti-NATO, right-wing populist candidate, Călin Georgescu. You mean the fellow who illegally received undeclared external foreign funding? More concretely, from Russia, a declared state sponsor of terrorism?
      - gls2ro 1y ago
        Where does he says the CCR bowed to the EU pressure? I followed the link that says _admitted_ and there goes to a Romanian website and they make a similar claim but as far as I can see he talks about applying the laws to protect against interference and not about making CCR decide something. A link to other website that also does not provide any evidence is not evidence even if it looks like a citation.
    - seydor 1y ago
      https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-10-2025-001112_EN.html https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-10-2025-0011... https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/P-10-2025-000150_EN.html https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/P-10-2025-0001...
- lttlrck 1y ago
  The US doesn't have popular voting system. There are good reasons for it, and in no way does it make the US non-democratic. I don't particularly like the Electoral College - but the history and the cases when members voted against the people are interesting and in some (many?) cases, examples of checks and balances. Checks and balances don't always align with your desires. That's a feature of democracy not a failure.
  - ChocolateGod 1y ago
    > in no way does it make the US non-democratic. I wasn't trying to claim the US is non-democratic, I was pointing out to the author of the prior comment that the US system isn't perfect either.
  - dataflow 1y ago
    > The US doesn't have popular voting system. There are good reasons for it, and in no way does it make the US non-democratic. Presumably if my votes counted a million times more than yours, you wouldn't say it's still a democracy, right? The extreme here is obviously a single ruler whose vote counts more than everyone else's combined. Where do you draw the line here?
    - illiac786 1y ago
      You are saying, if it’s not direct popular vote, it’s not democratic. Germany and the US are then no democracies by this standard, and I am sure there are much more. I believe UK also not. That’s your definition, but then I’d like to understand what you call these form of government and how you differentiate from a country like russia, which is also holding elections. The way you phrase it is very binary: either a country has popular vote or it’s the same as the least democratic countries.
      - dataflow 1y ago
        > The way you phrase it is very binary: either a country has popular vote or it’s the same as the least democratic countries. No. I merely pointed out that we have two extremes and that a line needs to be drawn somewhere, and thus asked where the parent commenter draws the line. That's it. I never suggested anything about where I believe the line should be drawn.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
libertine 1y ago
Didn't the current president of the US say that his 2016 election was stolen and triggered an insurrection, and then proceed to pardon those who attacked democratic institutions? Isn't he now seeking to dismantle all the checks and balances, all while doing crypto dumps, enabling him to receive money from undisclosed sources? This is your democratic reference? > At this time there are 0 people worth talking about in the Commission or the council. What's with the cult of personality? Why do you need someone worth talking about? For example, everyone talks about Trump for all the wrong reasons, does that mean that's worth it? It just sounds like you don't know much about the EU.
- l11r 1y ago
  Trump will leave office in 2028 just like any other US president. The only difference between now and then is extreme polarization all over the world because a lot of emerging problems. I am originally from Russia and I cannot read this seriously. Yes, there are problems in US democracy. But it still works and LIGHT YEARS ahead of what you can see in Russia. Those comparisons with Nazi Germany and other oppressive regimes are just insane. They devalue words, and you just won't find the right ones when shit really hits the fan.
  - hobs 1y ago
    There's been plenty of indications that's not true. Trump has been floating a third term and a Trump regime with his children. He said the election was stolen. He tried to steal it himself. You are basically saying "Well TODAY the United States is fine!" but if you look at the trendline Russia is basically still shit, and we now have an insurrectionist as a President whose spending a significant portion of his time destroying American institutions as far beyond repair as he can.
  - libertine 1y ago
    > Trump will leave office in 2028 just like any other US president. Trump has been openly playing with the idea of a third term, and has spoken about ways of achieving this. What makes you so sure he will leave office in 2028? > I am originally from Russia and I cannot read this seriously. Yes, there are problems in US democracy. But it still works and LIGHT YEARS ahead of what you can see in Russia. I don't understand where you're getting the idea of comparing with Russia, Nazi Germany or other oppresive regimes. I asked the question about what other countries and organizations are in a better position to lecture about democracy. Acknowledging that the USA is currently in an institutional and democratic crisis doesn't mean they're Russia; it means they're on the wrong trajectory.
lawn 1y ago
It's frankly laughable to claim that the US still has democratic checks and balances with all the shit Trump and his gang has done.
- lttlrck 1y ago
  The checks and balances are there. But they don't always "check and balance" the way you want them to. Same in the EU. In this very comment section there are people abdicating to the courts, saying they'll block this proposal. The EUs checks and balance also work slowly and not always in your favor.

Zealotux 1y ago

None? I just think the EU should stop acting holier-than-thou when it has been actively attacking individual freedoms and privacy for years now.

libertine 1y ago
But how are they acting holier-than-thou?
- shitlibertine 1y ago
  [dead]

sdoering 1y ago

Any institution that does not kill thousands every year: Annual Deaths (Recent Years): - Mediterranean Sea 2,000–3,000+ (60% drownings) - Pushbacks/Frontex Several hundred (2,000 deaths linked to Frontex actions) - Land Borders/Camps Dozens to hundreds (Winter peaks, underreported) There are by far too few NGOs or journalists looking into the despicable practices of the EU - but we Europeans definitely should not sit oh the high horse and preach about human rights to anyone. It is a disgrace what we as a European people let our elected officials get away with.

snehk 1y ago
Australia hat a similar situation. They cut that number down to basically zero when they publicly announced that no one entering Australia that way would ever be able to settle in Australia in any way.

Gud 1y ago

Switzerland.

hulitu 1y ago

> Out of curiosity, despite its flaws and setbacks, what countries or organizations are in a better position to lecture others on those matters? One should try living in more than one country. After some time, one might realize, that the adjective "better" has no place in one's sentence.

libertine 1y ago
I find it odd that one needs to live in more than one country to be able to make a judgment on the use of the adjective better. But I'll take the bait, let's say someone who lived in Syria during the Assad rule and then changed to the US, will that person come to that realization?