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The far left seem to be a far greater danger at present. They are the ones pushing for all the authoritarianism.

by collyw 1y ago

f_devd 1y ago
I know a few examples of upcoming far right, who are the upcoming far left?
- collyw 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - archagon 1y ago
    You mean the “far left” Labour politicians trying their best to cosplay Tories? Meanwhile, Reform — a populist far-right party — is clobbering everyone in the polls.
    - mytailorisrich 1y ago
      If Reform is far right then Corbyn's Labour was definitely far left. Certainly it is completely incorrect to label Farage "far right", he is nothing of the sort. Overall the most accurate description for Reform is probably right-wing populism. You can't simply put a label "far right" on anything and everything on the right while, at the same time, claiming that everything on the left is only "mild social democracy" when similar left-wing populism exists if not, indeed, far left.
      - archagon 1y ago
        > Key to the far-right worldview is the notion of societal purity, often invoking ideas of a homogeneous "national" or "ethnic" community. This view generally promotes organicism, which perceives society as a unified, natural entity under threat from diversity or modern pluralism. Far-right movements frequently target perceived threats to their idealized community, whether ethnic, religious, or cultural, leading to anti-immigrant sentiments, welfare chauvinism, and, in extreme cases, political violence or oppression. I don’t know, that sounds pretty spot on for the current global wave of right-wing populism, including Reform.
        mytailorisrich 1y ago
        What's spot on is the trend to label anything or anyone in favour of cuts to immigration as "far right", and to extrapolate that being broadly "anti-immigration" means being effectively for "racial purity" with Mein Kampf on the bedside table. This is transparently false but insidious and it obviously seems to have taken roots as you show. It does not help healthy debates on such important issues, but perhaps that's exactly the point.
        archagon 1y ago
        These parties are not far right for favoring cuts to immigration. They’re far right for harping on about native whites getting replaced and referring to migrants like they’re some sort of infestation. > In a widely seen video on Twitter former UKIP leader Nigel Farage claimed that new census figures showed that "London, Birmingham and Manchester are all now minority white cities". > “125,000 illegal migrants have crossed the English Channel in nearly 4,000 boats since 2018. You can use what ever word you like for it, but I think invasion is appropriate — and millions of people agree with me.”
        mytailorisrich 1y ago
        That's being anti mass immigration and populist, not "far right" and I can tell you that outside of Western liberal circles this is considered a mild, if not matter of fact, take on things. The Chinese even have a term for this Western/European ideology that is self-loathing and accepting of anything on the altar of "diversity" and refusing to face issues such as mass immigration: "white left" (and that's coming from a country ruled by a Communist Party). So, apparently most of the world is actually "far right"... "In March 2024, the BBC called the party far-right but soon retracted its statement and apologised to Reform UK, writing that describing the party as far-right "fell short of our usual editorial standards" [1] (Can't accuse the BBC of being biased in favour of right-wing politics, I think) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reform_UK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reform_UK
- mytailorisrich 1y ago
  In France the largest party is Parliament is labelled "far right". That being the case then the third largest party is "far left" and could be in government depending on next elections and, especially, on possible coalitions.
  - collyw 1y ago
    Same in Germany. It's not the right that are talking of banning the most popular parties.
asimovfan 1y ago
Whom do you mean by that could you please elaborate?
williamdclt 1y ago
We must be living in parallel universes with HN being our only interdimensional link. On the far-right, we have authoritarian politicians openly mingling with fascists and neonazis. Le Pen in France, Reform in UK, whatever parties in Germany and Italy... Not to speak of the counties where they are _already_ in power like Hungary. On the far-left we have... well actually, who is left enough that they'd be as "far" as the fascists and neonazis are on the right of the spectrum? I'm not aware of any party or politician with any sort of influence that'd be that far left. Is anyone proposing full-on marxism? USSR-style or chinese-style central planning (not that anyone on the left considers these a model to repeat)? The "communist" and "socialist" parties are wayyyy more centrist. The political horseshoe actually looks more like a hook.
- account42 1y ago
  [flagged]
- mytailorisrich 1y ago
  Talking about "parallel universe", to claim that Le Pen or Reform UK are authoritarian and "openly mingling with fascists and neonazis" is pure fantasy. But if that's what you think then surely many left-wing parties in Europe must be far left, too. For instance when the leader of the main left-wing party (and 3rd largest party in Parliament) in France says that he wants to get rid of capitalism.
- theasisa 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - AlexandrB 1y ago
    You're posting this in a thread about an article where a bunch of "left" politicians are trying to pass sweeping surveillance legislation. Yet you expect people to take their proclamations that they just want "functional healthcare" at face value? This doublethink is so weird.
    - 1y ago

The far left seem to be a far greater danger at present. They are the ones pushing for all the authoritarianism.

by collyw 1y ago

The far left seem to be a far greater danger at present. They are the ones pushing for all the authoritarianism.

f_devd 1y ago

I know a few examples of upcoming far right, who are the upcoming far left?

collyw 1y ago
[flagged]
- archagon 1y ago
  You mean the “far left” Labour politicians trying their best to cosplay Tories? Meanwhile, Reform — a populist far-right party — is clobbering everyone in the polls.
  - mytailorisrich 1y ago
    If Reform is far right then Corbyn's Labour was definitely far left. Certainly it is completely incorrect to label Farage "far right", he is nothing of the sort. Overall the most accurate description for Reform is probably right-wing populism. You can't simply put a label "far right" on anything and everything on the right while, at the same time, claiming that everything on the left is only "mild social democracy" when similar left-wing populism exists if not, indeed, far left.
    - archagon 1y ago
      > Key to the far-right worldview is the notion of societal purity, often invoking ideas of a homogeneous "national" or "ethnic" community. This view generally promotes organicism, which perceives society as a unified, natural entity under threat from diversity or modern pluralism. Far-right movements frequently target perceived threats to their idealized community, whether ethnic, religious, or cultural, leading to anti-immigrant sentiments, welfare chauvinism, and, in extreme cases, political violence or oppression. I don’t know, that sounds pretty spot on for the current global wave of right-wing populism, including Reform.
      - mytailorisrich 1y ago
        What's spot on is the trend to label anything or anyone in favour of cuts to immigration as "far right", and to extrapolate that being broadly "anti-immigration" means being effectively for "racial purity" with Mein Kampf on the bedside table. This is transparently false but insidious and it obviously seems to have taken roots as you show. It does not help healthy debates on such important issues, but perhaps that's exactly the point.
        archagon 1y ago
        These parties are not far right for favoring cuts to immigration. They’re far right for harping on about native whites getting replaced and referring to migrants like they’re some sort of infestation. > In a widely seen video on Twitter former UKIP leader Nigel Farage claimed that new census figures showed that "London, Birmingham and Manchester are all now minority white cities". > “125,000 illegal migrants have crossed the English Channel in nearly 4,000 boats since 2018. You can use what ever word you like for it, but I think invasion is appropriate — and millions of people agree with me.”
        mytailorisrich 1y ago
        That's being anti mass immigration and populist, not "far right" and I can tell you that outside of Western liberal circles this is considered a mild, if not matter of fact, take on things. The Chinese even have a term for this Western/European ideology that is self-loathing and accepting of anything on the altar of "diversity" and refusing to face issues such as mass immigration: "white left" (and that's coming from a country ruled by a Communist Party). So, apparently most of the world is actually "far right"... "In March 2024, the BBC called the party far-right but soon retracted its statement and apologised to Reform UK, writing that describing the party as far-right "fell short of our usual editorial standards" [1] (Can't accuse the BBC of being biased in favour of right-wing politics, I think) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reform_UK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reform_UK
mytailorisrich 1y ago
In France the largest party is Parliament is labelled "far right". That being the case then the third largest party is "far left" and could be in government depending on next elections and, especially, on possible coalitions.
- collyw 1y ago
  Same in Germany. It's not the right that are talking of banning the most popular parties.

asimovfan 1y ago

Whom do you mean by that could you please elaborate?

williamdclt 1y ago

We must be living in parallel universes with HN being our only interdimensional link. On the far-right, we have authoritarian politicians openly mingling with fascists and neonazis. Le Pen in France, Reform in UK, whatever parties in Germany and Italy... Not to speak of the counties where they are _already_ in power like Hungary. On the far-left we have... well actually, who is left enough that they'd be as "far" as the fascists and neonazis are on the right of the spectrum? I'm not aware of any party or politician with any sort of influence that'd be that far left. Is anyone proposing full-on marxism? USSR-style or chinese-style central planning (not that anyone on the left considers these a model to repeat)? The "communist" and "socialist" parties are wayyyy more centrist. The political horseshoe actually looks more like a hook.

account42 1y ago
[flagged]
mytailorisrich 1y ago
Talking about "parallel universe", to claim that Le Pen or Reform UK are authoritarian and "openly mingling with fascists and neonazis" is pure fantasy. But if that's what you think then surely many left-wing parties in Europe must be far left, too. For instance when the leader of the main left-wing party (and 3rd largest party in Parliament) in France says that he wants to get rid of capitalism.
theasisa 1y ago
[flagged]
- AlexandrB 1y ago
  You're posting this in a thread about an article where a bunch of "left" politicians are trying to pass sweeping surveillance legislation. Yet you expect people to take their proclamations that they just want "functional healthcare" at face value? This doublethink is so weird.
  - 1y ago