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Good to see a More or Less story on HN. For those who don't follow it, it is basically either a UK current affairs show for the mildly autistic, or a regular op

by ktizo 14y ago

Good to see a More or Less story on HN. For those who don't follow it, it is basically either a UK current affairs show for the mildly autistic, or a regular open university maths and economics lecture - http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qshd http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qshd

mmahemoff 14y ago
Yeah something like Freakonomics (Tim Harford calls himself the undercover economist) and with equally admirable production qualities. I mentioned More or Less as my podcast recommendation on the very last HNpod actually.
- polshaw 14y ago
  glad to see this is still around.. enjoyed it a lot, i thought it was gone after the 3 month hiatus.
polshaw 14y ago
I really hate this trend for describing anything somewhat intellectual as 'autistic'.
- lutusp 14y ago
  Yes, but psychologists love it -- it's bread on their table. Anyone sufficiently to the right of the mean I.Q. can be diagnosed on the autism spectrum, and be put into pointless therapy.
  - alanctgardner 14y ago
    I don't really understand this view of therapy. In my experience, it's something you choose for yourself, because you recognize the need. The odds that you receive a psychiatric evaluation against your will and be compelled into therapy are amazingly slim. Especially for something like 'autism-spectrum' disorders, where the majority of sufferers appear to be high-functioning.
    - lutusp 14y ago
      > I don't really understand this view of therapy. In my experience, it's something you choose for yourself, because you recognize the need. That would be nice, but it doesn't reflect reality. In schools, children are frequently given autism spectrum diagnoses against their better interests, or wishes, or the wishes of their parents (but not always -- sometimes parents force these things on their children). But the patient's wishes are often the lowest priority. Ideally, people would volunteer for therapy solely on issues they choose for themselves. But this isn't how clinical psychology works in modern times. Schools have a vested interest in getting diagnoses, because special-education funds are only available for those with a diagnosis. The reason Asperger's is being abandoned is because it was applied in exactly the way described above, until everyone realized it was a scam -- even the therapists who benefited the most. Now it's slated for removal from the next edition of the DSM, and further, the diagnosis criteria for autism spectrum is being reworked to prevent another epidemic of nonsense diagnoses such as we have just seen. > The odds that you receive a psychiatric evaluation against your will and be compelled into therapy are amazingly slim. On the contrary, it's an everyday occurrence, especially among children, who aren't mature enough to realize that psychologists aren't doctors. > Especially for something like 'autism-spectrum' disorders, where the majority of sufferers appear to be high-functioning. Yes, and that is the present problem area -- bogus diagnoses, using vague criteria that can be applied to nearly anyone, with obvious advantages to everyone except the patient. Mental health professionals, aware that autism spectrum diagnoses are out of control and no longer have any connection to reality, have joined an American Psychological Association task force charged with redefining ASD to stem the tide of nonsense diagnoses. One of those behind the redefinition effort (Dr. Fred Volkmar, director of the Child Study Center at the Yale School of Medicine) says of the diagnosis surge, "We would nip it in the bud."
      - charlieflowers 14y ago
        "... Asperger's is being abandoned.... Now it's slated for removal from the next edition of the DSM" REALLY??! Wow. I sure thought I was seeing a bunch of misguided hullabaloo, but I'm surprised to see the "industry" itself is aware of it and addressing it. Do you have a link or any kind of substantiation?
  - philwelch 14y ago
    Didn't realize I'd ended up on Conspiracy Theory News.
    - lutusp 14y ago
      What? Psychologists have acknowledged what I said -- I didn't make it up. Psychologists now see that the Asperger's diagnosis epidemic had no basis in reality -- that's why Asperger's is being abandoned. Further reading: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/health/03asperger.html?pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/health/03asperger.html?pag...
      - philwelch 14y ago
        It's effectively being reclassified as a form of autism, which is what neurologists have been calling it for years now. You're being incoherent--why on earth would psychologists "abandon" a diagnosis that they "love" because it's "bread on their table"? On second thought, don't bother answering--I already waste too much time jousting with conspiracy theorists on HN.
        lutusp 14y ago
        > It's effectively being reclassified as a form of autism That's like saying astrology is being reclassified as a form of astronomy. Something like that happened, but we all know the outcome of that battle. > why on earth would psychologists "abandon" a diagnosis that they "love" because it's "bread on their table"? Because of public exposure. Because of articles like this one: http://arachnoid.com/trouble_with_psychology http://arachnoid.com/trouble_with_psychology Psychologists realized their behavior was obviously and solely self-serving, even to non-specialists. So, just as with Recovered Memory Therapy, they called a halt to something that could only do them more harm. > I already waste too much time jousting with conspiracy theorists on HN. That only makes sense if psychologists are the conspiracy theorists, because it is psychologists who are demanding this change. Case in point -- Theodore Insel, sitting director of the NIMH, calls for the same change that I do: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=faulty-circuits http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=faulty-circ... Quote: "In most areas of medicine, doctors have historically tried to glean something about the underlying cause of a patient’s illness before figuring out a treatment that addresses the source of the problem. When it came to mental or behavioral disorders in the past, however, no physical cause was detectable so the problem was long assumed by doctors to be solely “mental,” and psychological therapies followed suit. Today scientific approaches based on modern biology, neuroscience and genomics are replacing nearly a century of purely psychological theories, yielding new approaches to the treatment of mental illnesses." Sound familiar?
- ktizo 14y ago
  Wasn't meaning it as intellectual, was more meaning it in as obsessed with pattern and order.

by ktizo 14y ago

mmahemoff 14y ago

Yeah something like Freakonomics (Tim Harford calls himself the undercover economist) and with equally admirable production qualities. I mentioned More or Less as my podcast recommendation on the very last HNpod actually.

polshaw 14y ago
glad to see this is still around.. enjoyed it a lot, i thought it was gone after the 3 month hiatus.

polshaw 14y ago

I really hate this trend for describing anything somewhat intellectual as 'autistic'.

lutusp 14y ago
Yes, but psychologists love it -- it's bread on their table. Anyone sufficiently to the right of the mean I.Q. can be diagnosed on the autism spectrum, and be put into pointless therapy.
- alanctgardner 14y ago
  I don't really understand this view of therapy. In my experience, it's something you choose for yourself, because you recognize the need. The odds that you receive a psychiatric evaluation against your will and be compelled into therapy are amazingly slim. Especially for something like 'autism-spectrum' disorders, where the majority of sufferers appear to be high-functioning.
  - lutusp 14y ago
    > I don't really understand this view of therapy. In my experience, it's something you choose for yourself, because you recognize the need. That would be nice, but it doesn't reflect reality. In schools, children are frequently given autism spectrum diagnoses against their better interests, or wishes, or the wishes of their parents (but not always -- sometimes parents force these things on their children). But the patient's wishes are often the lowest priority. Ideally, people would volunteer for therapy solely on issues they choose for themselves. But this isn't how clinical psychology works in modern times. Schools have a vested interest in getting diagnoses, because special-education funds are only available for those with a diagnosis. The reason Asperger's is being abandoned is because it was applied in exactly the way described above, until everyone realized it was a scam -- even the therapists who benefited the most. Now it's slated for removal from the next edition of the DSM, and further, the diagnosis criteria for autism spectrum is being reworked to prevent another epidemic of nonsense diagnoses such as we have just seen. > The odds that you receive a psychiatric evaluation against your will and be compelled into therapy are amazingly slim. On the contrary, it's an everyday occurrence, especially among children, who aren't mature enough to realize that psychologists aren't doctors. > Especially for something like 'autism-spectrum' disorders, where the majority of sufferers appear to be high-functioning. Yes, and that is the present problem area -- bogus diagnoses, using vague criteria that can be applied to nearly anyone, with obvious advantages to everyone except the patient. Mental health professionals, aware that autism spectrum diagnoses are out of control and no longer have any connection to reality, have joined an American Psychological Association task force charged with redefining ASD to stem the tide of nonsense diagnoses. One of those behind the redefinition effort (Dr. Fred Volkmar, director of the Child Study Center at the Yale School of Medicine) says of the diagnosis surge, "We would nip it in the bud."
    - charlieflowers 14y ago
      "... Asperger's is being abandoned.... Now it's slated for removal from the next edition of the DSM" REALLY??! Wow. I sure thought I was seeing a bunch of misguided hullabaloo, but I'm surprised to see the "industry" itself is aware of it and addressing it. Do you have a link or any kind of substantiation?
- philwelch 14y ago
  Didn't realize I'd ended up on Conspiracy Theory News.
  - lutusp 14y ago
    What? Psychologists have acknowledged what I said -- I didn't make it up. Psychologists now see that the Asperger's diagnosis epidemic had no basis in reality -- that's why Asperger's is being abandoned. Further reading: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/health/03asperger.html?pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/health/03asperger.html?pag...
    - philwelch 14y ago
      It's effectively being reclassified as a form of autism, which is what neurologists have been calling it for years now. You're being incoherent--why on earth would psychologists "abandon" a diagnosis that they "love" because it's "bread on their table"? On second thought, don't bother answering--I already waste too much time jousting with conspiracy theorists on HN.
      - lutusp 14y ago
        > It's effectively being reclassified as a form of autism That's like saying astrology is being reclassified as a form of astronomy. Something like that happened, but we all know the outcome of that battle. > why on earth would psychologists "abandon" a diagnosis that they "love" because it's "bread on their table"? Because of public exposure. Because of articles like this one: http://arachnoid.com/trouble_with_psychology http://arachnoid.com/trouble_with_psychology Psychologists realized their behavior was obviously and solely self-serving, even to non-specialists. So, just as with Recovered Memory Therapy, they called a halt to something that could only do them more harm. > I already waste too much time jousting with conspiracy theorists on HN. That only makes sense if psychologists are the conspiracy theorists, because it is psychologists who are demanding this change. Case in point -- Theodore Insel, sitting director of the NIMH, calls for the same change that I do: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=faulty-circuits http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=faulty-circ... Quote: "In most areas of medicine, doctors have historically tried to glean something about the underlying cause of a patient’s illness before figuring out a treatment that addresses the source of the problem. When it came to mental or behavioral disorders in the past, however, no physical cause was detectable so the problem was long assumed by doctors to be solely “mental,” and psychological therapies followed suit. Today scientific approaches based on modern biology, neuroscience and genomics are replacing nearly a century of purely psychological theories, yielding new approaches to the treatment of mental illnesses." Sound familiar?
ktizo 14y ago
Wasn't meaning it as intellectual, was more meaning it in as obsessed with pattern and order.