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> That argument, in particular, survived multiple rounds of reviews with friends outside my team who do not fully agree with me about this stuff. It's a deeply

> That argument, in particular, survived multiple rounds of reviews with friends outside my team who do not fully agree with me about this stuff. It's a deeply sincere, and, I would say for myself, earned take on this. Which argument? The one dismissing all arguments about IP on the grounds that some software engineers are pirates? That argument is not only unpersuasive, it does a disservice to the rest of the post and weakens its contribution by making you as the author come off as willfully inflammatory and intentionally blind to nuance, which does the opposite of breaking the unproductive equilibrium. It feeds the sense that those in the skeptics camp have that AI adopters are intellectually unserious. I know that you know that the law and ethics of IP are complicated, that the "profession" is diverse and can't be lumped into a cohesive unit for summary dismissal, and that there are entirely coherent ethical stances that would call for both piracy in some circumstances and condemnation of IP theft in others. I've seen enough of your work to know that dismissing all that nuance with a flippant call to "shove this concern up your ass" is beneath you.

simoncion 1y ago
> The one dismissing all arguments about IP on the grounds that some software engineers are pirates? Yeah... this was a really, incredibly horseshit argument. I'm all for a good rant, but goddamn, man, this one wasn't good. I would say "I hope the reputational damage was worth whatever he got out of it", but I figure he's been able to retire at any time for a while now, so that sort of stuff just doesn't matter anymore to him.
- tptacek 1y ago
  I love how many people have in response to this article tried to intimate that writing it put my career in jeopardy; so forcefully do they disagree with a technical piece that it must somehow be career-limiting.
  - simoncion 1y ago
    It's just such a mind-meltingly bad argument, man. "A whole bunch of folks ignore copyright terms, so all complaints that 'Inhaling most-to-all of the code that can be read on the Internet with the intent to make a proprietary machine that makes a ton of revenue for the owner of that machine and noone else is probably bad, and if not a violation of the letter of the law, surely a violation of its spirit.' are invalid." When I hear someone sincerely say stuff that works out to "Software licenses don't matter, actually.", I strongly reduce my estimation of their ability to reason well and behave ethically. Does this matter? Probably not. There are many folks in the field who hold that sort of opinion, so it's relatively easy to surround yourself with likeminded folks. Do you hold these sorts of opinions? Fuck if I know. All I know about is what you wrote today. Anyway. As I mentioned, you're late-career in what seems to be a significantly successful career, so your reputation absolutely doesn't matter, and all this chatter is irrelevant to you.
    - tptacek 1y ago
      I don't know who you're quoting, but it's not me.
      - simoncion 1y ago
        I'm not quoting anyone. Perhaps wrapping the second paragraph in what I understand to be Russian-style quotes (« ») would have been clearer? Or maybe prepending the words "Your argument ends up being something like " to the second paragraph would have been far clearer? shrug
        tptacek 1y ago
        On HN, the convention is that quotations indicate literal quotation. It's not a reasonable paraphrase of my argument either, but you know that.
        simoncion 1y ago
        > It's not a reasonable paraphrase of my argument either, but you know that. To quote from your essay: "But if you’re a software developer playing this card? Cut me a little slack as I ask you to shove this concern up your ass. No profession has demonstrated more contempt for intellectual property. The median dev thinks Star Wars and Daft Punk are a public commons. The great cultural project of developers has been opposing any protection that might inconvenience a monetizable media-sharing site. When they fail at policy, they route around it with coercion. They stand up global-scale piracy networks and sneer at anybody who so much as tries to preserve a new-release window for a TV show." Man, you might not see the resemblance now, but if you return to it in three to six months, I bet you will. Also, I was a professional musician in a former life. Given the content of your essay, you might be surprised to know how very, very fast and loose musicians as a class play with copyright laws. In my personal experience, the typical musician paid for approximately zero of the audio recordings in their possession. I'd be surprised if things weren't similar for the typical practitioner of the visual arts.

simoncion 1y ago

> The one dismissing all arguments about IP on the grounds that some software engineers are pirates? Yeah... this was a really, incredibly horseshit argument. I'm all for a good rant, but goddamn, man, this one wasn't good. I would say "I hope the reputational damage was worth whatever he got out of it", but I figure he's been able to retire at any time for a while now, so that sort of stuff just doesn't matter anymore to him.

tptacek 1y ago
I love how many people have in response to this article tried to intimate that writing it put my career in jeopardy; so forcefully do they disagree with a technical piece that it must somehow be career-limiting.
- simoncion 1y ago
  It's just such a mind-meltingly bad argument, man. "A whole bunch of folks ignore copyright terms, so all complaints that 'Inhaling most-to-all of the code that can be read on the Internet with the intent to make a proprietary machine that makes a ton of revenue for the owner of that machine and noone else is probably bad, and if not a violation of the letter of the law, surely a violation of its spirit.' are invalid." When I hear someone sincerely say stuff that works out to "Software licenses don't matter, actually.", I strongly reduce my estimation of their ability to reason well and behave ethically. Does this matter? Probably not. There are many folks in the field who hold that sort of opinion, so it's relatively easy to surround yourself with likeminded folks. Do you hold these sorts of opinions? Fuck if I know. All I know about is what you wrote today. Anyway. As I mentioned, you're late-career in what seems to be a significantly successful career, so your reputation absolutely doesn't matter, and all this chatter is irrelevant to you.
  - tptacek 1y ago
    I don't know who you're quoting, but it's not me.
    - simoncion 1y ago
      I'm not quoting anyone. Perhaps wrapping the second paragraph in what I understand to be Russian-style quotes (« ») would have been clearer? Or maybe prepending the words "Your argument ends up being something like " to the second paragraph would have been far clearer? shrug
      - tptacek 1y ago
        On HN, the convention is that quotations indicate literal quotation. It's not a reasonable paraphrase of my argument either, but you know that.
        simoncion 1y ago
        > It's not a reasonable paraphrase of my argument either, but you know that. To quote from your essay: "But if you’re a software developer playing this card? Cut me a little slack as I ask you to shove this concern up your ass. No profession has demonstrated more contempt for intellectual property. The median dev thinks Star Wars and Daft Punk are a public commons. The great cultural project of developers has been opposing any protection that might inconvenience a monetizable media-sharing site. When they fail at policy, they route around it with coercion. They stand up global-scale piracy networks and sneer at anybody who so much as tries to preserve a new-release window for a TV show." Man, you might not see the resemblance now, but if you return to it in three to six months, I bet you will. Also, I was a professional musician in a former life. Given the content of your essay, you might be surprised to know how very, very fast and loose musicians as a class play with copyright laws. In my personal experience, the typical musician paid for approximately zero of the audio recordings in their possession. I'd be surprised if things weren't similar for the typical practitioner of the visual arts.