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> Plot twist: I don't type "correctly" at all. My fingers just go wherever they want. It's like anarchist typing. My left pinky probably hasn't touched the 'A'

> Plot twist: I don't type "correctly" at all. My fingers just go wherever they want. It's like anarchist typing. My left pinky probably hasn't touched the 'A' key in months, but somehow I'm still in the 99.5 percentile. Turns out the "proper way" is just a suggestion. Like following PEP 8 or using semicolons in JavaScript. Sure, it's nice, but if your way works better, who cares? This is super interesting - I have typed "wrong" since the time I first picked up a keyboard, 6 or 7 years old, back in an age where typing was not taught in school or an expected skill everyone was just automatically meant to know. As such, I developed my own "style" which looks a lot like "pecking" a lot of beginners will do, but has adapted over the decades to something that is my own. I typically just use the index/middle finger on my left hand that covers most of the left hand side of the keyboard, depending on word (index might reach for the 'y' key sometimes) and the pinky for shift key. Right hand uses mostly the index, ring (for hitting backspace and enter) and thumb (for spacebar). I've often wondered if I was ever able to retrain myself to do it "properly" whether I'd type even faster than I do. now I am not sure. I have "peaked" at 125+ wpm in 1 minute tests, and in casual conversation with familiar words, probably can maintain easily around 110-120. I think for most things I typically cruise around 100 without trying too much. It is a nice skill but I've never been able to figure out why I type so much faster than most people I meet, especially given being self-taught and the unorthodox way in which I type. Often when I am showing something on a terminal, for instance, which includes a lot of auto complete and muscle memory, I need to slow down by about 10-20x for people to follow what I am doing.

colanderman 1y ago
I also type unorthodoxly and quickly. Hands held diagonal (wrists straight), no particular finger-letter assignments. Closer to playing a piano. 33 years typing like this, going strong. I can't think of any benefit of home row typing other than it's easy to teach in a prescriptive manner.
- dawnofdusk 1y ago
  >I can't think of any benefit If you want to minimize the time it takes to travel to a particular key, it makes sense to keep your fingers at the "center of mass" of the keyboard... which is the home row.
  - meta-level 1y ago
    Also f and j are marked and you can find them blindly
    - horsawlarway 1y ago
      You can find lots of ways to orient yourself, though. Space and Caps-lock are enough to orient me on any keyboard I've used for more than a minute or two. Space and Enter orient on the right hand. Basically - if my left pinky is touching the line between caps lock and shift on the left side of those keys, and my thumb is touching the bottom of the space bar, I know exactly where my middle fingers are resting. With the added bonus of not contorting my wrist and fingers into a very uncomfortable space. I have very large hands, and the "Proper" finger placement would be a guaranteed RSI injury for me.
      - rudimentary_phy 1y ago
        I type (mostly) correct, but this is true. I'm still using one of the first keyboards I ever bought and the f and j keys have become worn down, so I seem to have learned ways similar to what you're describing. Different keyboards with macros or weirdly formatted buttons throw me for a loop with this method though, while the f and j keys guarantee correct positioning.
  - colanderman 1y ago
    My fingers naturally rest on... (checks) Q-E-F-V N-J-I-P. That is, sort of like a V diagonal spanning the entire alphabetic region. Which coincidentally puts them on or 1 key away from every letter except X, Y and Z. But they move all over while I type anyway.
- mattlondon 1y ago
  Same here with diagonal hands and straight wrists. I sometimes wonder "why" I haven't got RSI but I assume it is because typing the "wrong way" allows you to keep your hands in a natural comfortable position, rather than the awkward positioning for wrists elbows shoulders and fingers required to do it the "right way". That and chiclet keyboards being so much more comfortable to use than big chunky keys
  - colanderman 1y ago
    I also credit straight-wrist typing with having not developed any keyboard-related RSI symptoms over 33 years. (Mice, on the other hand! Gripping a mouse started to cause me crazy wrist pain 20 years ago. Been using a trackball ever since.) Opposite to you though, I find "desktop" keys (or I should say, keys with travel) preferable to "laptop" keys. Bottoming out each key on every stroke on a Macbook for years started giving me weird typing-spelling issues (some sort of precursor to focal dystonia? dunno). Keys with long travel prevent that for me. (Or maybe it's just because that's what I learned on – Apple //e keyboard.)
  - _dain_ 1y ago
    >rather than the awkward positioning for wrists elbows shoulders and fingers required to do it the "right way". Biggest improvement to my typing QOL was getting one of those split keyboards[1]. I can rotate the two pieces independently so that my forearm-wrist-hand-fingers system form a straight, relaxed line, both pointing a little towards each other. This is much more comfortable than the outward-splaying pose that most single-piece keyboards force your wrists into. I'm convinced this will reduce the risk of RSI and other hand injuries as I age. Stops me from hunching and constricting my chest too; it allows for a better upper back posture and deeper breathing. Secondary benefit is being able to remap the keys, particularly punctuation, into more reachable places. [1] Moonlander Mk1, but really any split one will do.
- horsawlarway 1y ago
  Similar here. I grew up playing multiplayer games on PC, and my natural resting spots sound similar to yours: straight wrists, left hand defaults closer to a-w-d than a-s-d-f. I avoid most pinky use outside of modifier keys, and there aren't strict finger-letter assignments. Middle of the keyboard gets hit by whatever hand makes it more likely to alternate nicely while typing a word. Main benefit I see is that I know a lot of folks my age now complaining of RSI when typing, and I don't seem to have any of that (mouse related - yes, keyboard - no). Funny since I didn't really make much association, but I also was learning to play piano at the same time I was learning to type. Gaming was a lot more of an incentive to learn how to type quickly back in the days where you could only communicate with text chat.
harrall 1y ago
Same. I’m embarrassed to explain how I type but I can do 125 (80 on iPhone, no swipe). If I’m going to be real, just you’re naturally talented and coordinated with your hands. That’s why most people can’t relate. We should form a group where we do finger things. /s
- JohnMakin 1y ago
  Weird, I thought I was so unique until I read some of the comments in this thread. I too am about 80-90 wpm on iphone, no swipe, and no autocorrect (it messes me up)
EvanAnderson 1y ago
Looks like we overlapped in writing our comments. I'll leave mine, but I wanted to voice support for yours. I started at 8 y/o and have a similar "story". In particular, it sounds like your hands and mine do a lot of the same thing. Anecdotally, I don't know anybody who types w/ a personalized style who has wrist RSI. I absolutely adore doing "improvisational piano" terminal sessions w/ people watching, particularly when I'm operating a GUI or CLI that I know really well. I slow myself down by narrating and, if it's an in-person gig, gesturing. Doing stuff in front of people in realtime feels a lot like jamming on a musical instrument for me.
HideousKojima 1y ago
My Mom got me Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing and other tools to help me to learn to type "correctly", but I didn't have any motivation to learn how to type until I started playing the original Starcraft online. I needed to be able to communicate with teammates (and trash talk opponents) in a timely manner, so I was forced to learn to type fast. But as a result, I also developed my own unorthodox style that looks a lot like hunt and peck. On a typing test where they provide me with what to type I can consistently get 60+ WPM, but when I'm typing something from my head I'm pretty sure I get 100 to 120.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- JohnMakin 1y ago
  Yea, this is how it started for me - typing something like "please stop killing me" and struggling to play the game while looking at my keyboard was a very early moment I remember that spurred me on.
dylan604 1y ago
if you've never had proper typing tests, then I'd suspect your WPM scores are not what you think. you may be typing keys at 110-120 WPM, but what does the score look like if you adjust for mistakes? It makes a bigger difference than most people are willing to admit.
- JohnMakin 1y ago
  I'm sorry for any undue snark here, but what do you mean by "proper" typing test and what do you think I meant in the OP by 1 minute tests? There are a plethora of online tests available that measure this with good accuracy and of course I have taken several. This is with <1% errors I am speaking of. I generally have very low errors. In addition, by late highschool, I had to pass a typing test for a computer class I took, and am well aware of how fast I type by now.
  - dylan604 1y ago
    A proper typing test will reduce your WPM for each mistake. It's not a raw counting of keys pressed in 60s.
    - JohnMakin 1y ago
      Ok, apparently you do not understand again or read at all what I just wrote - typing tests online don't work this way. Neither did the one I took in highschool. I would be hard pressed to find a single one that doesn't account for errors and is just a raw count of the keys pressed. What would that even look like?
      - stavros 1y ago
        Just randomly mash the keys as fast as possible, that's your WPM!
    - zuhsetaqi 1y ago
      You know that WPM stands for Words per Minute? So of course it’s not about pressing keys but typing grammatically correct words.
Starlevel004 1y ago
I have a similar typing style, with two finger typing for nearly all keys except shift with uses my little finger. I too am at around 100wpm on average with peaks of ~130wpm depending on keyboard. It's cool to see somebody else out there who types like I do.
w10-1 1y ago
> I typically just use the index/middle finger on my left hand that covers most of the left hand side of the keyboard, depending on word (index might reach for the 'y' key sometimes) and the pinky for shift key. Right hand uses mostly the index, ring (for hitting backspace and enter) and thumb (for spacebar). fwiw, you might be avoiding the ulnar nerve usage. Perhaps that makes things easier for your brain/cerebellum and spine, which then only have to coordinate movement in one nerve pathway.
- JohnMakin 1y ago
  that’s a really interesting point. What is, if any, the overhead of this coordination? I imagine it must be in the order of milliseconds or much much less but is something I never considered. And to some degree once it becomes instinctive muscle “memory” is there still this overhead?
LoganDark 1y ago
> This is super interesting - I have typed "wrong" since the time I first picked up a keyboard, 6 or 7 years old, back in an age where typing was not taught in school or an expected skill everyone was just automatically meant to know. As such, I developed my own "style" which looks a lot like "pecking" a lot of beginners will do, but has adapted over the decades to something that is my own. Hey, me too: https://vxtwitter.com/LoganDark/status/1919146616763617342 https://vxtwitter.com/LoganDark/status/1919146616763617342 (I usually type with more than two pointers, that post was just to prove a point that you don't need more than two fingers to type quickly. You probably don't even necessarily need two, though I couldn't go nearly that fast with only one.)
Trixter 1y ago
It is my guess that everyone in the thread with "Hey, I don't type normally either and my speed is just fine" comments are likely staring at the keyboard when they type. All two-finger typists I've personally witnessed, even the extremely prolific Roger Ebert, couldn't effectively transcribe a printed document with their learned typing style. If you never have to type something you're reading, I'm sure unique typing styles are just fine.
- JohnMakin 1y ago
  I mean, in my case, you could not possibly be more wrong. I haven't looked down at the keyboard since I was 8 or so and would assume most here don't program staring directly at their keyboard. Do you think it impossible for muscle memory to work outside of home row or something?

colanderman 1y ago

I also type unorthodoxly and quickly. Hands held diagonal (wrists straight), no particular finger-letter assignments. Closer to playing a piano. 33 years typing like this, going strong. I can't think of any benefit of home row typing other than it's easy to teach in a prescriptive manner.

dawnofdusk 1y ago
>I can't think of any benefit If you want to minimize the time it takes to travel to a particular key, it makes sense to keep your fingers at the "center of mass" of the keyboard... which is the home row.
- meta-level 1y ago
  Also f and j are marked and you can find them blindly
  - horsawlarway 1y ago
    You can find lots of ways to orient yourself, though. Space and Caps-lock are enough to orient me on any keyboard I've used for more than a minute or two. Space and Enter orient on the right hand. Basically - if my left pinky is touching the line between caps lock and shift on the left side of those keys, and my thumb is touching the bottom of the space bar, I know exactly where my middle fingers are resting. With the added bonus of not contorting my wrist and fingers into a very uncomfortable space. I have very large hands, and the "Proper" finger placement would be a guaranteed RSI injury for me.
    - rudimentary_phy 1y ago
      I type (mostly) correct, but this is true. I'm still using one of the first keyboards I ever bought and the f and j keys have become worn down, so I seem to have learned ways similar to what you're describing. Different keyboards with macros or weirdly formatted buttons throw me for a loop with this method though, while the f and j keys guarantee correct positioning.
- colanderman 1y ago
  My fingers naturally rest on... (checks) Q-E-F-V N-J-I-P. That is, sort of like a V diagonal spanning the entire alphabetic region. Which coincidentally puts them on or 1 key away from every letter except X, Y and Z. But they move all over while I type anyway.
mattlondon 1y ago
Same here with diagonal hands and straight wrists. I sometimes wonder "why" I haven't got RSI but I assume it is because typing the "wrong way" allows you to keep your hands in a natural comfortable position, rather than the awkward positioning for wrists elbows shoulders and fingers required to do it the "right way". That and chiclet keyboards being so much more comfortable to use than big chunky keys
- colanderman 1y ago
  I also credit straight-wrist typing with having not developed any keyboard-related RSI symptoms over 33 years. (Mice, on the other hand! Gripping a mouse started to cause me crazy wrist pain 20 years ago. Been using a trackball ever since.) Opposite to you though, I find "desktop" keys (or I should say, keys with travel) preferable to "laptop" keys. Bottoming out each key on every stroke on a Macbook for years started giving me weird typing-spelling issues (some sort of precursor to focal dystonia? dunno). Keys with long travel prevent that for me. (Or maybe it's just because that's what I learned on – Apple //e keyboard.)
- _dain_ 1y ago
  >rather than the awkward positioning for wrists elbows shoulders and fingers required to do it the "right way". Biggest improvement to my typing QOL was getting one of those split keyboards[1]. I can rotate the two pieces independently so that my forearm-wrist-hand-fingers system form a straight, relaxed line, both pointing a little towards each other. This is much more comfortable than the outward-splaying pose that most single-piece keyboards force your wrists into. I'm convinced this will reduce the risk of RSI and other hand injuries as I age. Stops me from hunching and constricting my chest too; it allows for a better upper back posture and deeper breathing. Secondary benefit is being able to remap the keys, particularly punctuation, into more reachable places. [1] Moonlander Mk1, but really any split one will do.
horsawlarway 1y ago
Similar here. I grew up playing multiplayer games on PC, and my natural resting spots sound similar to yours: straight wrists, left hand defaults closer to a-w-d than a-s-d-f. I avoid most pinky use outside of modifier keys, and there aren't strict finger-letter assignments. Middle of the keyboard gets hit by whatever hand makes it more likely to alternate nicely while typing a word. Main benefit I see is that I know a lot of folks my age now complaining of RSI when typing, and I don't seem to have any of that (mouse related - yes, keyboard - no). Funny since I didn't really make much association, but I also was learning to play piano at the same time I was learning to type. Gaming was a lot more of an incentive to learn how to type quickly back in the days where you could only communicate with text chat.

harrall 1y ago

Same. I’m embarrassed to explain how I type but I can do 125 (80 on iPhone, no swipe). If I’m going to be real, just you’re naturally talented and coordinated with your hands. That’s why most people can’t relate. We should form a group where we do finger things. /s

JohnMakin 1y ago
Weird, I thought I was so unique until I read some of the comments in this thread. I too am about 80-90 wpm on iphone, no swipe, and no autocorrect (it messes me up)

EvanAnderson 1y ago

Looks like we overlapped in writing our comments. I'll leave mine, but I wanted to voice support for yours. I started at 8 y/o and have a similar "story". In particular, it sounds like your hands and mine do a lot of the same thing. Anecdotally, I don't know anybody who types w/ a personalized style who has wrist RSI. I absolutely adore doing "improvisational piano" terminal sessions w/ people watching, particularly when I'm operating a GUI or CLI that I know really well. I slow myself down by narrating and, if it's an in-person gig, gesturing. Doing stuff in front of people in realtime feels a lot like jamming on a musical instrument for me.

HideousKojima 1y ago

My Mom got me Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing and other tools to help me to learn to type "correctly", but I didn't have any motivation to learn how to type until I started playing the original Starcraft online. I needed to be able to communicate with teammates (and trash talk opponents) in a timely manner, so I was forced to learn to type fast. But as a result, I also developed my own unorthodox style that looks a lot like hunt and peck. On a typing test where they provide me with what to type I can consistently get 60+ WPM, but when I'm typing something from my head I'm pretty sure I get 100 to 120.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
JohnMakin 1y ago
Yea, this is how it started for me - typing something like "please stop killing me" and struggling to play the game while looking at my keyboard was a very early moment I remember that spurred me on.

dylan604 1y ago

if you've never had proper typing tests, then I'd suspect your WPM scores are not what you think. you may be typing keys at 110-120 WPM, but what does the score look like if you adjust for mistakes? It makes a bigger difference than most people are willing to admit.

JohnMakin 1y ago
I'm sorry for any undue snark here, but what do you mean by "proper" typing test and what do you think I meant in the OP by 1 minute tests? There are a plethora of online tests available that measure this with good accuracy and of course I have taken several. This is with <1% errors I am speaking of. I generally have very low errors. In addition, by late highschool, I had to pass a typing test for a computer class I took, and am well aware of how fast I type by now.
- dylan604 1y ago
  A proper typing test will reduce your WPM for each mistake. It's not a raw counting of keys pressed in 60s.
  - JohnMakin 1y ago
    Ok, apparently you do not understand again or read at all what I just wrote - typing tests online don't work this way. Neither did the one I took in highschool. I would be hard pressed to find a single one that doesn't account for errors and is just a raw count of the keys pressed. What would that even look like?
    - stavros 1y ago
      Just randomly mash the keys as fast as possible, that's your WPM!
  - zuhsetaqi 1y ago
    You know that WPM stands for Words per Minute? So of course it’s not about pressing keys but typing grammatically correct words.

Starlevel004 1y ago

I have a similar typing style, with two finger typing for nearly all keys except shift with uses my little finger. I too am at around 100wpm on average with peaks of ~130wpm depending on keyboard. It's cool to see somebody else out there who types like I do.

w10-1 1y ago

> I typically just use the index/middle finger on my left hand that covers most of the left hand side of the keyboard, depending on word (index might reach for the 'y' key sometimes) and the pinky for shift key. Right hand uses mostly the index, ring (for hitting backspace and enter) and thumb (for spacebar). fwiw, you might be avoiding the ulnar nerve usage. Perhaps that makes things easier for your brain/cerebellum and spine, which then only have to coordinate movement in one nerve pathway.

JohnMakin 1y ago
that’s a really interesting point. What is, if any, the overhead of this coordination? I imagine it must be in the order of milliseconds or much much less but is something I never considered. And to some degree once it becomes instinctive muscle “memory” is there still this overhead?

LoganDark 1y ago

> This is super interesting - I have typed "wrong" since the time I first picked up a keyboard, 6 or 7 years old, back in an age where typing was not taught in school or an expected skill everyone was just automatically meant to know. As such, I developed my own "style" which looks a lot like "pecking" a lot of beginners will do, but has adapted over the decades to something that is my own. Hey, me too: https://vxtwitter.com/LoganDark/status/1919146616763617342 https://vxtwitter.com/LoganDark/status/1919146616763617342 (I usually type with more than two pointers, that post was just to prove a point that you don't need more than two fingers to type quickly. You probably don't even necessarily need two, though I couldn't go nearly that fast with only one.)

Trixter 1y ago

It is my guess that everyone in the thread with "Hey, I don't type normally either and my speed is just fine" comments are likely staring at the keyboard when they type. All two-finger typists I've personally witnessed, even the extremely prolific Roger Ebert, couldn't effectively transcribe a printed document with their learned typing style. If you never have to type something you're reading, I'm sure unique typing styles are just fine.

JohnMakin 1y ago
I mean, in my case, you could not possibly be more wrong. I haven't looked down at the keyboard since I was 8 or so and would assume most here don't program staring directly at their keyboard. Do you think it impossible for muscle memory to work outside of home row or something?