5 ms·

>But, as some of the people I interviewed reminded me, no matter where they lived they would not be fully accepted. >“As a trans person, I’m always going to ha

>But, as some of the people I interviewed reminded me, no matter where they lived they would not be fully accepted. >“As a trans person, I’m always going to have to deal with people discriminating against me,” one woman said. >Living in a rural locale with an active local music scene let her focus on aspects of her identity that were more important to her than her gender identity. This is my experience as well. I don't experience more stares or scowls in rural areas than I do in urban centers. Even in San Francisco, being visibly transgender is often uncomfortable.

bad_username 1y ago
And, conversely, village people are probably exposed to less HR risk if they use the wrong pronoun.
- skyyler 1y ago
  "HR risk if they use the wrong pronoun" I don't mean to pick on you personally, but this sort of thing gets on my nerves and I have to take a moment to say something here. I don't love how some people think I'm some sort of implicit threat or ticking time bomb because of stories they've heard or read about people like me. Like most people in the office, I just want to be able to do my work. I'm not trying to cause problems for people. The thought that me living my life makes some people feel like they have to walk on eggshells is awful. Luckily most people don't see me as some kind of threat like this, but it's obvious when people do. I can't speak for everyone, but for me personally, going to HR for _anything_ is terrifying. Going to HR to complain about a valid grievance is scary. Going to HR over a simple mistake that a well-meaning person made feels like it would explode my career. It's hard enough to get a job as an openly transgender person.
  - givemeethekeys 1y ago
    Once you / someone in your network gets HR’d over something new, you will take steps to prevent a repeat event.
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      > Once you / someone in your network gets HR’d over something new I’ve met zero people who faced actual consequences for messing up a pronoun. Same for people who go thermonuclear over their preferred pronoun. Zero. Both seem to be more a feature of social media than reality.
      - givemeethekeys 1y ago
        I've met zero people who use pronouns. Definitely just a feature of social media reality and, based on job applications, HR people finding new ways to keep their jobs. I do know people who have been laid off "at will" after getting reported to HR because they had the wrong political opinion.
        spondylosaurus 1y ago
        > I've met zero people who use pronouns. Unless any of your peers are cartoon cavemen who always use people's names in place of words like "I" or "him" or "us," I'm going to wager that 100% of the people you know do actually use pronouns.
        kanbara 1y ago
        everyone has pronouns, just that they align with their outward gender / gender identity. btw i'm a sr engineering manager at a faang and my directory page has they/them pronouns on it. i don't care if people mess them up, and i don't correct people, but it's nice if they make an effort. the most nonbinary thing i do is paint my nails, but everything else about me is masc. and i've worked in rural parts of america and have had the exact opposite: a conservative opinion including "hey this republican is a really great candidate, now go vote in the next election!" from companies on the s&p500.
        JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > i've worked in rural parts of america and have had the exact opposite: a conservative opinion including "hey this republican is a really great candidate, now go vote in the next election!" from companies on the s&p500. Yup. It's difficult to balance the freedom of assembly, on one hand, and the freedom of political speech, on the other hand. Given political opinions are mutable it seems reasonable to hold people accountable for ones they express at the workplace. I'm less comfortable about punishing people at work for opinions expressed outside of it. But it's also naive to pretend customers, vendors and the public won't judge you based on the public opinions of your employees.
chaoskanzlerin 1y ago
I've had the very same experience in Bavaria, even with Munich having a reputation as "million-sized village". (otoh said problem was even worse in Berlin and the Ruhr valley, when I visited)
mountainriver 1y ago
Honestly, as a bisexual man I’ve gotten it way worse from the liberals in the big cities. Most of them are deeply biphobic and treat people terribly who aren’t a part of their in-group. The rural folks are often homophobic but they have a code of decency and respect which applies to all people. Even though I knew they probably thought I was wrong in someway they at least treated me with genuine respect.

bad_username 1y ago

And, conversely, village people are probably exposed to less HR risk if they use the wrong pronoun.

skyyler 1y ago
"HR risk if they use the wrong pronoun" I don't mean to pick on you personally, but this sort of thing gets on my nerves and I have to take a moment to say something here. I don't love how some people think I'm some sort of implicit threat or ticking time bomb because of stories they've heard or read about people like me. Like most people in the office, I just want to be able to do my work. I'm not trying to cause problems for people. The thought that me living my life makes some people feel like they have to walk on eggshells is awful. Luckily most people don't see me as some kind of threat like this, but it's obvious when people do. I can't speak for everyone, but for me personally, going to HR for _anything_ is terrifying. Going to HR to complain about a valid grievance is scary. Going to HR over a simple mistake that a well-meaning person made feels like it would explode my career. It's hard enough to get a job as an openly transgender person.
- givemeethekeys 1y ago
  Once you / someone in your network gets HR’d over something new, you will take steps to prevent a repeat event.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > Once you / someone in your network gets HR’d over something new I’ve met zero people who faced actual consequences for messing up a pronoun. Same for people who go thermonuclear over their preferred pronoun. Zero. Both seem to be more a feature of social media than reality.
    - givemeethekeys 1y ago
      I've met zero people who use pronouns. Definitely just a feature of social media reality and, based on job applications, HR people finding new ways to keep their jobs. I do know people who have been laid off "at will" after getting reported to HR because they had the wrong political opinion.
      - spondylosaurus 1y ago
        > I've met zero people who use pronouns. Unless any of your peers are cartoon cavemen who always use people's names in place of words like "I" or "him" or "us," I'm going to wager that 100% of the people you know do actually use pronouns.
      - kanbara 1y ago
        everyone has pronouns, just that they align with their outward gender / gender identity. btw i'm a sr engineering manager at a faang and my directory page has they/them pronouns on it. i don't care if people mess them up, and i don't correct people, but it's nice if they make an effort. the most nonbinary thing i do is paint my nails, but everything else about me is masc. and i've worked in rural parts of america and have had the exact opposite: a conservative opinion including "hey this republican is a really great candidate, now go vote in the next election!" from companies on the s&p500.
        JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > i've worked in rural parts of america and have had the exact opposite: a conservative opinion including "hey this republican is a really great candidate, now go vote in the next election!" from companies on the s&p500. Yup. It's difficult to balance the freedom of assembly, on one hand, and the freedom of political speech, on the other hand. Given political opinions are mutable it seems reasonable to hold people accountable for ones they express at the workplace. I'm less comfortable about punishing people at work for opinions expressed outside of it. But it's also naive to pretend customers, vendors and the public won't judge you based on the public opinions of your employees.

chaoskanzlerin 1y ago

I've had the very same experience in Bavaria, even with Munich having a reputation as "million-sized village". (otoh said problem was even worse in Berlin and the Ruhr valley, when I visited)

mountainriver 1y ago

Honestly, as a bisexual man I’ve gotten it way worse from the liberals in the big cities. Most of them are deeply biphobic and treat people terribly who aren’t a part of their in-group. The rural folks are often homophobic but they have a code of decency and respect which applies to all people. Even though I knew they probably thought I was wrong in someway they at least treated me with genuine respect.