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Thank you for saying this because it feels like these people entering the industry in such numbers over the 2010s completely killed what made this job fun in th

Thank you for saying this because it feels like these people entering the industry in such numbers over the 2010s completely killed what made this job fun in the first place. I call them "ticket completers". Sure they can mechanically perform the minimum requirements of the job, but there is zero interest at all in what is actually being done; just following PM directions to the letter with no further thought. The whole spirit of innovation and curiosity and discovery has been lost, replaced by lifestyle seekers who look at you like an insane person when trying to talk about software in the abstract (ha!). The hackers and nerds will be just fine. They are like gold when we find them now. But if this makes CS "uncool" again, I am all for it.

dpflan 1y ago
> The hackers and nerds will be just fine. They are like gold when we find them now. But if this makes CS "uncool" again, I am all for it. Think about how AI can help students cheat nowadays. You could still cheat previously, but now a CS-degree seeker can have an AI do the entirety of school work for them (with exception of say pen-and-paper tests). Imagine how the quality of new graduates drops with regard to the understanding and abilities you highlight as crucial to being effective in software, and how those that do understand are even more valuable relatively, but perhaps harder to find in the noise.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- giantg2 1y ago
  When most jobs just want you to be a ticket completer, the cheaters will do just fine if they can do it faster. The rest of use will be considered slow and discarded. It's happening to me.
  - dpflan 1y ago
    Yes, they can be ticket punchers more easily, kind of trained to do that. But there are certainly levels of achievement that are not as possible with such a foundation that lacks grounding and true understanding. Do you mind elaborating here on what is happening to you? It seems worthwhile information to add to the discussions ongoing for this post.
    - giantg2 1y ago
      The short of it is that the team just wants high throughput but doesn't care about improving the system health or process efficiency. I tend to consider multiple aspects of the work including those areas. But if you just want someone to turn out tickets, I tend to be slower unless the task is simple or repetitive. I have a disability and graying hair, so my options are limited. I'm going to fail my PIP later this month and I'll probably end up working at Walmart.
      - dpflan 1y ago
        Hm, I see. Do you use a coding assistant? Do you see value in keeping up or your morale is diminishing? Can you change teams or positions or focus?
        giantg2 1y ago
        I use Copilot, but it isn't that helpful. There is no morale - I'm so burnt out I fantasize about getting hit by a bus. No team will touch me on a PIP.
        nickd2001 1y ago
        If genuinely feeling suicidal for any length of time, please reach out for help. :) From your many posts, some of which I replied to before, I believe you work at a soul-destroying place which isn't doing you any good, and I understand you're kinda stuck there cos of health insurance etc, but, what I'd say is try to live for today, not worry too much. IF they fire you, f** 'em. I bet your skills are better and more useful than you currently think. If you did get kicked out , you may well find something better. To me there doesn't seem evidence you'll be stuck working at Walmart. Maybe you could get a job in local state government? (OK not federal cos that's been gutted) Not stunningly paid but perhaps nicer working environment?
dinetrimr 1y ago
Hackers could like hacking outside their job for hobby but find job itself soul crushing. More like hackers and nerds that can withstand the corporate demand to grind will be left, rest get filtered. Plenty of talented people can be left outside the cog machine but cook up apps nobody but they care about
giantg2 1y ago
"The hackers and nerds will be just fine. They are like gold when we find them now." This is not at all my experience. One of the problems I face is many of those PMs and companies in general want mindless ticket completers. My current job just wants us to grind through the Jira backlog. They have no interest in anything else and crush it from your will too.

dpflan 1y ago

> The hackers and nerds will be just fine. They are like gold when we find them now. But if this makes CS "uncool" again, I am all for it. Think about how AI can help students cheat nowadays. You could still cheat previously, but now a CS-degree seeker can have an AI do the entirety of school work for them (with exception of say pen-and-paper tests). Imagine how the quality of new graduates drops with regard to the understanding and abilities you highlight as crucial to being effective in software, and how those that do understand are even more valuable relatively, but perhaps harder to find in the noise.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
giantg2 1y ago
When most jobs just want you to be a ticket completer, the cheaters will do just fine if they can do it faster. The rest of use will be considered slow and discarded. It's happening to me.
- dpflan 1y ago
  Yes, they can be ticket punchers more easily, kind of trained to do that. But there are certainly levels of achievement that are not as possible with such a foundation that lacks grounding and true understanding. Do you mind elaborating here on what is happening to you? It seems worthwhile information to add to the discussions ongoing for this post.
  - giantg2 1y ago
    The short of it is that the team just wants high throughput but doesn't care about improving the system health or process efficiency. I tend to consider multiple aspects of the work including those areas. But if you just want someone to turn out tickets, I tend to be slower unless the task is simple or repetitive. I have a disability and graying hair, so my options are limited. I'm going to fail my PIP later this month and I'll probably end up working at Walmart.
    - dpflan 1y ago
      Hm, I see. Do you use a coding assistant? Do you see value in keeping up or your morale is diminishing? Can you change teams or positions or focus?
      - giantg2 1y ago
        I use Copilot, but it isn't that helpful. There is no morale - I'm so burnt out I fantasize about getting hit by a bus. No team will touch me on a PIP.
        nickd2001 1y ago
        If genuinely feeling suicidal for any length of time, please reach out for help. :) From your many posts, some of which I replied to before, I believe you work at a soul-destroying place which isn't doing you any good, and I understand you're kinda stuck there cos of health insurance etc, but, what I'd say is try to live for today, not worry too much. IF they fire you, f** 'em. I bet your skills are better and more useful than you currently think. If you did get kicked out , you may well find something better. To me there doesn't seem evidence you'll be stuck working at Walmart. Maybe you could get a job in local state government? (OK not federal cos that's been gutted) Not stunningly paid but perhaps nicer working environment?

dinetrimr 1y ago

Hackers could like hacking outside their job for hobby but find job itself soul crushing. More like hackers and nerds that can withstand the corporate demand to grind will be left, rest get filtered. Plenty of talented people can be left outside the cog machine but cook up apps nobody but they care about

giantg2 1y ago

"The hackers and nerds will be just fine. They are like gold when we find them now." This is not at all my experience. One of the problems I face is many of those PMs and companies in general want mindless ticket completers. My current job just wants us to grind through the Jira backlog. They have no interest in anything else and crush it from your will too.