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Industrialising production of a recreational drug seems like a double-edged sword. Does the Gabonese leadership really have the geopolitical know-how to make su

Industrialising production of a recreational drug seems like a double-edged sword. Does the Gabonese leadership really have the geopolitical know-how to make sure this stays as a boost to the economy and not an invitation to a series of US military assaults?

MangoToupe 1y ago
Given what I've read about ibogaine, I don't think "recreational" is quite the right term... but maybe I'm just confused what you're referring to.
- N_Lens 1y ago
  It's "recreational" if you're a masochist!!
- dmurray 1y ago
  It can have effects "similar to LSD, mescaline and amphetamines". 100% chance some people would use that recreationally if it were more freely available than the alternatives.
  - MangoToupe 1y ago
    I think I get what you're saying—you're trying to use the medical/recreational distinction we use for weed and shrooms. But, the primary non-indigenous use (and I suspect some of the intended commercial use) is in fact medical: it is useful for treating addictions. But, to me "recreational" implies a party drug or a casual-use one. I don't see ibogaine as easily meeting either use. Why would you want to take a form of LSD that requires flying to Gabon and might kill you? There are much cheaper and less stressful ways to engage in drug tourism.
electroglyph 1y ago
enduring a psychedelic experience in order to face your demons and come to the honest realization that you're destroying your life and the lives of your loved ones isn't what I'd describe as "recreational"
Bayart 1y ago
Psychedelics aren't physiologically addictive and don't induce the same economics as what you'd generally think as "recreational drugs". There are no LSD or DMT cartels.
- graemep 1y ago
  Maybe not exactly the same, but plenty of people do buy LSD and other hallucinogens from illegal sources. The lack of cartels are perhaps a reflection of the lack of the international supply chains etc. associated with drugs like cocaine and heroin?
  - Bayart 1y ago
    It's a reflection of the lack of money. Those substances are comparatively cheap, not habit forming and don't build up long term tolerance. A lot of them are pretty easy to DIY (though not LSD-25). The typical LSD user will buy a $10 blotter once in a while. The money flow is not worth mentioning in the broader scope of illegal substances trafficking.
  - voytec 1y ago
    > The lack of cartels are perhaps a reflection of the lack of the international supply chains etc. No. Most of Europe (apart from Scandinavian states, Belarus and Russian Federation, I believe) has access to legal LSD prodrugs. Not analogs but a LSD-25 molecule with attached [it changes] something group which is detached after ingestion, making the ingested substance "the real thing". These do not pass the LSD/DMT Ehrlich test[0]. AFAIK citizens of at least a few US states can as well fully legally obtain such compounds from up north. So no - lack of LSD cartels is not a result of the lack of international supply chains. As GP stated - it's because these substances have a very low addiction potential. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehrlich%27s_reagent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehrlich%27s_reagent
    - Klonoar 1y ago
      Tangential, but some people have indeed reported batches of 1P-LSD passing that test.
AnAfrican 1y ago
>Does the Gabonese leadership really have the geopolitical know-how to make sure this stays as a boost to the economy and not an invitation to a series of US military assaults? Well, they've had oil for the past 60 years. They have experience.
armchairhacker 1y ago
> Overseas laboratories meanwhile have worked out how to make synthetic ibogaine and to extract it from other plants, such as Voacanga africana. > That flowering tree is available in greater quantities in Ghana and Mexico, which "can produce ibogaine at unbeatable prices," said Guignon. > And "Gabonese traditional knowledge is not protected by intellectual property regulations." I don’t see why they’d be invaded, I think more likely they’ll be out-competed.
TomK32 1y ago
I'd doubt it. Gabon still has plenty of oil but that money goes into a few pockets only, the economy not diverse at all. If they want to get into drugs, why not all in and produce Captagon like Assad's regime in Syria? What the country needs is the Bongo family to withdraw, with empty pockets and for corruption to end. The 2023 coup was one family member against another and the last election the winner (from the dynasty of course) won 95% of the votes... Kim Jong Un is feeling envious!

MangoToupe 1y ago

Given what I've read about ibogaine, I don't think "recreational" is quite the right term... but maybe I'm just confused what you're referring to.

N_Lens 1y ago
It's "recreational" if you're a masochist!!
dmurray 1y ago
It can have effects "similar to LSD, mescaline and amphetamines". 100% chance some people would use that recreationally if it were more freely available than the alternatives.
- MangoToupe 1y ago
  I think I get what you're saying—you're trying to use the medical/recreational distinction we use for weed and shrooms. But, the primary non-indigenous use (and I suspect some of the intended commercial use) is in fact medical: it is useful for treating addictions. But, to me "recreational" implies a party drug or a casual-use one. I don't see ibogaine as easily meeting either use. Why would you want to take a form of LSD that requires flying to Gabon and might kill you? There are much cheaper and less stressful ways to engage in drug tourism.

electroglyph 1y ago

enduring a psychedelic experience in order to face your demons and come to the honest realization that you're destroying your life and the lives of your loved ones isn't what I'd describe as "recreational"

Bayart 1y ago

Psychedelics aren't physiologically addictive and don't induce the same economics as what you'd generally think as "recreational drugs". There are no LSD or DMT cartels.

graemep 1y ago
Maybe not exactly the same, but plenty of people do buy LSD and other hallucinogens from illegal sources. The lack of cartels are perhaps a reflection of the lack of the international supply chains etc. associated with drugs like cocaine and heroin?
- Bayart 1y ago
  It's a reflection of the lack of money. Those substances are comparatively cheap, not habit forming and don't build up long term tolerance. A lot of them are pretty easy to DIY (though not LSD-25). The typical LSD user will buy a $10 blotter once in a while. The money flow is not worth mentioning in the broader scope of illegal substances trafficking.
- voytec 1y ago
  > The lack of cartels are perhaps a reflection of the lack of the international supply chains etc. No. Most of Europe (apart from Scandinavian states, Belarus and Russian Federation, I believe) has access to legal LSD prodrugs. Not analogs but a LSD-25 molecule with attached [it changes] something group which is detached after ingestion, making the ingested substance "the real thing". These do not pass the LSD/DMT Ehrlich test[0]. AFAIK citizens of at least a few US states can as well fully legally obtain such compounds from up north. So no - lack of LSD cartels is not a result of the lack of international supply chains. As GP stated - it's because these substances have a very low addiction potential. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehrlich%27s_reagent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehrlich%27s_reagent
  - Klonoar 1y ago
    Tangential, but some people have indeed reported batches of 1P-LSD passing that test.

AnAfrican 1y ago

>Does the Gabonese leadership really have the geopolitical know-how to make sure this stays as a boost to the economy and not an invitation to a series of US military assaults? Well, they've had oil for the past 60 years. They have experience.

armchairhacker 1y ago

> Overseas laboratories meanwhile have worked out how to make synthetic ibogaine and to extract it from other plants, such as Voacanga africana. > That flowering tree is available in greater quantities in Ghana and Mexico, which "can produce ibogaine at unbeatable prices," said Guignon. > And "Gabonese traditional knowledge is not protected by intellectual property regulations." I don’t see why they’d be invaded, I think more likely they’ll be out-competed.

TomK32 1y ago

I'd doubt it. Gabon still has plenty of oil but that money goes into a few pockets only, the economy not diverse at all. If they want to get into drugs, why not all in and produce Captagon like Assad's regime in Syria? What the country needs is the Bongo family to withdraw, with empty pockets and for corruption to end. The 2023 coup was one family member against another and the last election the winner (from the dynasty of course) won 95% of the votes... Kim Jong Un is feeling envious!