4 ms·

Did you watch the same oval office event I did? The national rhetoric has absolutely changed. The talk of mineral "deals" instead of values and realpolitik is a

Did you watch the same oval office event I did? The national rhetoric has absolutely changed. The talk of mineral "deals" instead of values and realpolitik is also a clear change. We are literally experiencing a purge of the old guard for replacement with loyalists throughout the US government bureaucracy, and once there are loyalists in every position of enforcement, the actions can be changed to match the rhetoric change, assuming they already haven't.

ericmay 1y ago
No because I don’t waste my time watching press releases like that. If you’re watching those videos and thinking something has changed, you’re the target audience and the marketing was successful. Those are for entertainment purposes only. Instead, find clear instances where the US is doing things like no longer sending Patriot missile launchers and missiles to Ukraine. [1] [1] https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-working-allies-deliveries-patriot-161248666.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-working-allies-deliveries-patr...
- hayst4ck 1y ago
  Right now you are wearing ignorance like a shield. You are proud of not watching a "manipulative press release." Watch it, then try saying nothing has changed. You seem like someone with a strong world view that's strong because you reject anything that challenges it.
- andrewflnr 1y ago
  > the United States is working closely with NATO allies that possess a certain number of Patriot air defence systems to encourage them to transfer them to Ukraine. Oh, that's real brave, yeah. Did you even read that before you linked it?
  - breppp 1y ago
    Don't have a horse in this race, but I don't understand your quote, it does back OP claims. These allies need agreement from the US government to transfer these systems to Ukraine. Some like Israel, probably transferred these to Ukraine in exchange for other US systems like THAAD
    - andrewflnr 1y ago
      GP implies that the US is still sending patriots to Ukraine. It is not, as explicitly stated in the article. Facilitating other people sending them is not the same thing, so their post is nonsense, just a half-assed attempt to bring in a "citation". Not that any of that is even a good measure for the way US's posture toward Ukraine has shifted.
      - ericmay 1y ago
        Andrew - the United States itself has a limited number of Patriot missile batteries and missiles available. The United States has been deploying more and more missile defense assets, including Patriot missile launchers and/or missiles, to the Asia Pacific region (Japan, Guam, Philippines, etc.) because of the very real possibility of a direct war with China over Taiwan. The reason the United States is asking allies in Europe to relocate their Patriot missile batteries to Ukraine is because Ukraine has an immediate defensive need. The countries that are not the United States and not in the Pacific don't have an immediate need for these missile batteries. Either they get them from a US NATO ally (under the US security guarantee) or they don't get them at all - dealer's choice. If the US "abandoned Ukraine" or policy somehow fundamentally shifted, we wouldn't see things like this take place. The United States has to facilitate the movement of materials and equipment like this because the US is the country that actually has the power to defend NATO allies (France, UK, Poland, etc. can as well but they need the US) so it's up to the US to understand global security needs and make determinations of where assets can be moved or repurposed. In this sense, the US is sending the Patriot launchers to Ukraine. The person responding to me was making baseless claims about the US withdrawing support. I don't think anything has fundamentally changed. You can read responses for yourself where people state things like the US stopped intelligence sharing which isn't true. If you want to make a claim that my post is nonsense and my citation, which was just a simple example in a reply to someone who didn't provide any citations of their own, was "half-assed" why don't you bring your own original thoughts and citations and articles and we can discuss them instead of just pointlessly criticizing the character of what I wrote instead of what I actually wrote?
      - breppp 1y ago
        I think that's overly semantic, and if the US government is actively pressuring governments (Israel) to transfer batteries, and is doing refurbishing of those batteries, then that's a good evidence of some policy. I do agree that there was a shift in US policy towards Ukraine with the new administration. However, Russia being Russia, it looks like it is all going back to the previous policy

ericmay 1y ago

No because I don’t waste my time watching press releases like that. If you’re watching those videos and thinking something has changed, you’re the target audience and the marketing was successful. Those are for entertainment purposes only. Instead, find clear instances where the US is doing things like no longer sending Patriot missile launchers and missiles to Ukraine. [1] [1] https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-working-allies-deliveries-patriot-161248666.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-working-allies-deliveries-patr...

hayst4ck 1y ago
Right now you are wearing ignorance like a shield. You are proud of not watching a "manipulative press release." Watch it, then try saying nothing has changed. You seem like someone with a strong world view that's strong because you reject anything that challenges it.
andrewflnr 1y ago
> the United States is working closely with NATO allies that possess a certain number of Patriot air defence systems to encourage them to transfer them to Ukraine. Oh, that's real brave, yeah. Did you even read that before you linked it?
- breppp 1y ago
  Don't have a horse in this race, but I don't understand your quote, it does back OP claims. These allies need agreement from the US government to transfer these systems to Ukraine. Some like Israel, probably transferred these to Ukraine in exchange for other US systems like THAAD
  - andrewflnr 1y ago
    GP implies that the US is still sending patriots to Ukraine. It is not, as explicitly stated in the article. Facilitating other people sending them is not the same thing, so their post is nonsense, just a half-assed attempt to bring in a "citation". Not that any of that is even a good measure for the way US's posture toward Ukraine has shifted.
    - ericmay 1y ago
      Andrew - the United States itself has a limited number of Patriot missile batteries and missiles available. The United States has been deploying more and more missile defense assets, including Patriot missile launchers and/or missiles, to the Asia Pacific region (Japan, Guam, Philippines, etc.) because of the very real possibility of a direct war with China over Taiwan. The reason the United States is asking allies in Europe to relocate their Patriot missile batteries to Ukraine is because Ukraine has an immediate defensive need. The countries that are not the United States and not in the Pacific don't have an immediate need for these missile batteries. Either they get them from a US NATO ally (under the US security guarantee) or they don't get them at all - dealer's choice. If the US "abandoned Ukraine" or policy somehow fundamentally shifted, we wouldn't see things like this take place. The United States has to facilitate the movement of materials and equipment like this because the US is the country that actually has the power to defend NATO allies (France, UK, Poland, etc. can as well but they need the US) so it's up to the US to understand global security needs and make determinations of where assets can be moved or repurposed. In this sense, the US is sending the Patriot launchers to Ukraine. The person responding to me was making baseless claims about the US withdrawing support. I don't think anything has fundamentally changed. You can read responses for yourself where people state things like the US stopped intelligence sharing which isn't true. If you want to make a claim that my post is nonsense and my citation, which was just a simple example in a reply to someone who didn't provide any citations of their own, was "half-assed" why don't you bring your own original thoughts and citations and articles and we can discuss them instead of just pointlessly criticizing the character of what I wrote instead of what I actually wrote?
    - breppp 1y ago
      I think that's overly semantic, and if the US government is actively pressuring governments (Israel) to transfer batteries, and is doing refurbishing of those batteries, then that's a good evidence of some policy. I do agree that there was a shift in US policy towards Ukraine with the new administration. However, Russia being Russia, it looks like it is all going back to the previous policy