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I wonder why people reflexively quote a "fallacy" from the year 1891! It wasn't true even back then, as evidenced by the multiple economic crises that followed.

I wonder why people reflexively quote a "fallacy" from the year 1891! It wasn't true even back then, as evidenced by the multiple economic crises that followed. Nowadays we have a completely different economy to begin with, saturated with "bullshit jobs" (Graeber) already. The amount of new inventions is finite. In the 1990s we had TGV, Concorde and Maglev trains. Perhaps physical inventions have been somewhat exhausted? What invention is on the horizon that will provide new jobs for those laid off from "bullshit jobs"? How did society support Einstein when he discovered relativity? It didn't: Despite the invention of the tractor in 1892, which, according to HN commentators, should have provided him with a carefree life, he had to take a job in the patent office. Which, according to "AI" fanatics, would now be automated by "AI".

emp17344 1y ago
The economy is not zero-sum. That’s just a fact. Go ahead, cite something to back up your claim.
- bgwalter 1y ago
  If you want to discuss the "dismal science" in one-liners, you won't get anywhere.
  - emp17344 1y ago
    I’ve provided a source. You haven’t.
andy99 1y ago
The real answer is that administrative overhead will expand to fill any jobs displaced by AI. There's no danger of net job loss, just a higher percentage of bullshit jobs. > he had to take a job in the patent office Do you have any idea how much a patent clerk makes
Aurornis 1y ago
> Perhaps physical inventions have been somewhat exhausted? I vividly remember hearing this from a group of elderly adults when I was around maybe 8 years old. I remember being very sad that I missed it: The good times of the economy, the period where all the cool things were invented, the “good times” that were being ruined by all of this new technology that the elderly people thought were against the natural way of how things should be. And it’s always wild to me that I see the same fallacies repeated on HN, inevitably by people who are also convinced that the good times are about to end and all of this new-fangled technology stuff is evil because they just figured out how the world worked in their middle age years and now it’s all changing in ways they find scary.
- bgwalter 1y ago
  [flagged]
- const_cast 1y ago
  But they're kind of right, we got all the low-hanging fruit out of the way a long time. I mean, how much higher is quality of life now compared to 1970? Like... a teensy bit. That's not true from 1915 to 1970 though. In some ways it's gotten worse. Yes we have these cool phones, but now you're chained to constant communication all the time. Life was a lot simpler and less distracting when your phone was on your wall.
  - tpmoney 1y ago
    Have we got all the low hanging fruit, or have we moved the floor up and new fruits are low hanging. How much better life is now depends on what you want to measure. For example, even with vastly more cars on the road road, our air quality is better in most major urban areas. Some of that is political, but a lot of it is technology advances since the 70s. The cars themselves are faster, safer and more efficient. Again some of that is political policy and a lot of that is technology. You can now light your whole home for the same amount of energy that you would have used in the 1970s to light a single overhead fixture in a room. All on the back of technology that didn’t exist until the 90s. For a mere $50 a month you can talk to anyone anywhere in the world in high quality audio and video for an infinite amount of time. In the 1970s just calling the next city over was a cost you had to worry about incurring, let alone calling someone half the world away. Almost all of the vastness of human knowledge is available for free or nearly free online, expanding your reach beyond what your local library has in stock. Yes there is a lot of junk out there. But there always has been a lot of junk. There have always been snake oil salesmen and scammers. There are more of them with new scams enabled by technology sure, but again that’s been true of all time. I don’t see evidence that we are uniquely overwhelmed with garbage relative to the benefits we’re accruing.

emp17344 1y ago

The economy is not zero-sum. That’s just a fact. Go ahead, cite something to back up your claim.

bgwalter 1y ago
If you want to discuss the "dismal science" in one-liners, you won't get anywhere.
- emp17344 1y ago
  I’ve provided a source. You haven’t.

andy99 1y ago

The real answer is that administrative overhead will expand to fill any jobs displaced by AI. There's no danger of net job loss, just a higher percentage of bullshit jobs. > he had to take a job in the patent office Do you have any idea how much a patent clerk makes

Aurornis 1y ago

> Perhaps physical inventions have been somewhat exhausted? I vividly remember hearing this from a group of elderly adults when I was around maybe 8 years old. I remember being very sad that I missed it: The good times of the economy, the period where all the cool things were invented, the “good times” that were being ruined by all of this new technology that the elderly people thought were against the natural way of how things should be. And it’s always wild to me that I see the same fallacies repeated on HN, inevitably by people who are also convinced that the good times are about to end and all of this new-fangled technology stuff is evil because they just figured out how the world worked in their middle age years and now it’s all changing in ways they find scary.

bgwalter 1y ago
[flagged]
const_cast 1y ago
But they're kind of right, we got all the low-hanging fruit out of the way a long time. I mean, how much higher is quality of life now compared to 1970? Like... a teensy bit. That's not true from 1915 to 1970 though. In some ways it's gotten worse. Yes we have these cool phones, but now you're chained to constant communication all the time. Life was a lot simpler and less distracting when your phone was on your wall.
- tpmoney 1y ago
  Have we got all the low hanging fruit, or have we moved the floor up and new fruits are low hanging. How much better life is now depends on what you want to measure. For example, even with vastly more cars on the road road, our air quality is better in most major urban areas. Some of that is political, but a lot of it is technology advances since the 70s. The cars themselves are faster, safer and more efficient. Again some of that is political policy and a lot of that is technology. You can now light your whole home for the same amount of energy that you would have used in the 1970s to light a single overhead fixture in a room. All on the back of technology that didn’t exist until the 90s. For a mere $50 a month you can talk to anyone anywhere in the world in high quality audio and video for an infinite amount of time. In the 1970s just calling the next city over was a cost you had to worry about incurring, let alone calling someone half the world away. Almost all of the vastness of human knowledge is available for free or nearly free online, expanding your reach beyond what your local library has in stock. Yes there is a lot of junk out there. But there always has been a lot of junk. There have always been snake oil salesmen and scammers. There are more of them with new scams enabled by technology sure, but again that’s been true of all time. I don’t see evidence that we are uniquely overwhelmed with garbage relative to the benefits we’re accruing.