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>I'm sorry, but I have to intervene, because this is a stunningly strong claim. You might be different, but I have never met a retiree who wanted to rent. Its

>I'm sorry, but I have to intervene, because this is a stunningly strong claim. You might be different, but I have never met a retiree who wanted to rent. Its leisure time. Have a shed, build shit, store your caravan, host the grandkids. >Housing consumes a lot of income which acts like a hidden tax - a drain on the economy. Yeah that sucks, lets not increase the burden of home ownership with a larger, overt tax. > Things deteriorate when people can't afford housing. Yes, like the elderly being unable to afford housing with land value based taxes. >You also seem to be talking about property tax, not LVT. Property taxes determined by land value. It doesnt gain special properties as an acronym, and it doesnt decrease when it becomes the primary source of state or federal income. > but the alternative (hoarding valuable land) is much worse. Hoarding land is largely caused by valuable land grants from the government to property developers. It doesnt require some great big alternative taxation system. >Services don't improve just with tax, but with the influx of capital and development to the area, available jobs, etc. You're using an incomplete model to reason about it. Yes, land value increases via lots of terrible reasons to increase taxation thats very true. >incentivises owners to use the land productively (density!) Zoning laws are the big issue here, you are already incentivised to do this. >discourages land speculation Government land release and zoning reform discourage speculation.

kubb 1y ago
You remain unconvinced, but I feel not for the right reasons. For now, just consider that all of these benefits of house ownership will be unavailable to the current and future generations, because they won’t own, won’t have grandchildren (no space to raise kids), won’t have the means to retire and won’t have a shed to tinker in. Partly because of housing costs.
- protocolture 1y ago
  Right but you make the (exceedingly common in my experience) mistake of reading my dislike for Georgism as opposition to reducing housing costs. In my own jurisdiction, housing costs are dictated up to 70% by zoning and regulation. Mostly, the failure of successive governments to release enough land to meet demand. But also, zoning preventing higher density construction. I dont feel the need to implement taxation reform to resolve clear supply and regulation issues. If a bunch of wealthy people were sitting in 1960s character homes, on land thats zoned for much higher density and just chilling that would be one thing. But when I know they are largely just fighting rezoning efforts so their neighbors dont build higher density, and lobbying against land release to ensure their property remains exclusive and expensive, those are the behaviors I want to deal with, and the reforms on that front are very obvious.

kubb 1y ago

You remain unconvinced, but I feel not for the right reasons. For now, just consider that all of these benefits of house ownership will be unavailable to the current and future generations, because they won’t own, won’t have grandchildren (no space to raise kids), won’t have the means to retire and won’t have a shed to tinker in. Partly because of housing costs.

protocolture 1y ago
Right but you make the (exceedingly common in my experience) mistake of reading my dislike for Georgism as opposition to reducing housing costs. In my own jurisdiction, housing costs are dictated up to 70% by zoning and regulation. Mostly, the failure of successive governments to release enough land to meet demand. But also, zoning preventing higher density construction. I dont feel the need to implement taxation reform to resolve clear supply and regulation issues. If a bunch of wealthy people were sitting in 1960s character homes, on land thats zoned for much higher density and just chilling that would be one thing. But when I know they are largely just fighting rezoning efforts so their neighbors dont build higher density, and lobbying against land release to ensure their property remains exclusive and expensive, those are the behaviors I want to deal with, and the reforms on that front are very obvious.