4 ms·

I pretty much agree. Especially for power users it sucks. Here are some strange points: - I can't run multiple instances of visual studio... - IE in Metro doe

by Avalaxy 14y ago

I pretty much agree. Especially for power users it sucks. Here are some strange points: - I can't run multiple instances of visual studio... - IE in Metro doesn't share cookies/settings with IE in desktop mode... - Closing apps is awkward... Drag them downwards (WTF) or use ALT+F4 (no, leaving the open in the background is not an option, it will clutter my alt+tab menu). - Start menu gone, wtf? Yes I do use it, and yes I do still click on it with my mouse to find certain things. The new search is worse... If I want 'windows update' I first have to click where I want to search for 'windows update' (and if I can't remember the name of what I'm looking for, this doesn't even work). - I want to leave windows partially open (not fullscreen) so I can see other things on my screen (download progress, file copy progress, etc.). Again: not possible in metro. - I can't get rid of the mandatory password/pin. These are just a few of the annoyances I encountered.

contextfree 14y ago
Running multiple instances of VS (or any other desktop app) should work the same as before (shift-click on taskbar), not sure what was happening there.
- Avalaxy 14y ago
  Shift click? Didn't try that yet. I always just click the VS shortcut again, and voilà: a new instance is launched.
  - contextfree 14y ago
    Wait, are you opening it from the Start screen? That switches by default instead of opening a new instance, but for desktop apps there's an app command (right click) to open a new window. I'd still recommend shift-click from the taskbar though (same as in Win7).
    - numo16 14y ago
      I think this may be an issue that will be popping up a lot, people thinking that everything has to be started from the start screen when everything works just as it always has from the desktop (minus a start menu, which is actually the start screen).
      - contextfree 14y ago
        I think the issue here is more that he probably didn't know how to start a new instance from the taskbar in Win7 - which is understandable as it's not exactly obvious - and was used to doing it from the start menu. However, you could make a case that switching to an existing instance is the more mainstream expected behavior and starting a new instance is a bit more advanced, so it's ok for it to be tucked away a bit more (but convenient enough once you know how).
- ahmelsayed 14y ago
  also - right click on the running instance in the task bar and select Visual Studio - middle click on the already running instance in the task bar same as with Windows 7
- breakall 14y ago
  Once the app is already running and visible in the taskbar, you can right-click the icon in the taskbar, and click the link with the same name as the app (e.g. for Google Chrome, the link I'm talking about says "Google Chrome"). This will open a new instance of the app.
DASD 14y ago
Disregard my questions. I just skimmed the section on windows management and it is as I feared. I don't really understand the Metro "intention(?)" for pcs(and I actually use and like Gnome 3 as my daily driver). I haven't used Windows 8 yet so pardon my possible silly questions. What's the experience of a Metro app on a large screen monitor...always fullscreen? The app is either running or not? Multiple Metro apps displayed/running simultaneously? Is Metro on by default for "pcs?"
- usea 14y ago
  What's the experience of a Metro app on a large screen monitor...always fullscreen? The app is either running or not? Multiple Metro apps displayed/running simultaneously? Is Metro on by default for "pcs?" Yes. Yes. Sort of. Yes, and you can't turn it off. You can run 2 metro apps at a time. 1 in fullscreen with the other "docked" in a limited mode to the side.
  - DASD 14y ago
    Interesting. So doesn't sound possible to divide the screen such as for an editor/Word on one half and to read a PDF or use a browser on the other half?
    - contextfree 14y ago
      Not with Metro apps, on the desktop everything works the same though.
      - DASD 14y ago
        I already dread the number of times I anticipate seeing users with 24"/30" monitors running some Metrofied equivalent of Notepad or Calculator.
        contextfree 14y ago
        In Windows 8, Notepad and Calculator are still desktop apps only.
mbell 14y ago
> - Start menu gone, wtf? Yes I do use it, and yes I do still click on it with my mouse to find certain things. The new search is worse... If I want 'windows update' I first have to click where I want to search for 'windows update' (and if I can't remember the name of what I'm looking for, this doesn't even work). How do you find anything in a windows start menu? Every application has its own naming scheme and complete control over where it puts itself in there. I consider it one of the worst long standing user experiences that still seems to be promoted/accepted for some unknown reason.
- wonderzombie 14y ago
  In Win7? Tap the Windows key and type the name of the program. At least for a power user, this is quite nice. It's arguably on par with Spotlight as an application launcher, with similar trade-offs (e.g. multiple matches--- which is the right one?). I'm not a huge fan of Windows, but this is one thing that Win7 (or Vista?) substantially improved over XP.
  - mbell 14y ago
    Did you read the quote I replied to? Underscored for clarity: > - Start menu gone, wtf? _____Yes I do use it, and yes I do still click on it with my mouse to find certain things_____.
- breakall 14y ago
  I totally agree with this. Each new app that I install prompts a new hunt through the Programs part of the Start menu for where the app might have stashed its icons -- would they be in a new folder with the same name as the app? In a folder with the name of the publisher? In the random dump of icons at the top that don't bother to create a folder for themselves? This leads to typing in the name of the app in the search box and letting Windows do this hunting for me. Microsoft's UX research found this as well. People prefer pinning apps Windows 7 to the taskbar over the Start menu[1]. The "hit Windows key and type name of app" scenario is preserved quite nicely with the Start screen. 1. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/10/03/evolving-the-start-menu.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/10/03/evolving-the-s...
josephcooney 14y ago
You can run multiple versions of VS (2012...I haven't checked others). If you pin it to the start menu and right-click and open a new instance it will open a new instance. Agree that this is annoying. It seems like the metro start/find screen takes the focus back to an existing instance by default, rather than launching a new instance. For a user with a fairly simple mental model of how things work this is probably a good thing, but for more advanced users it is a problem.
- josephcooney 14y ago
  From some of the other comments it looks like shift+click on the metro start screen works to open a new instance (which is the same as the task bar in Win7,8)
magoon 14y ago
Pro tips to alleviate some of the gripes I see here: Shift-click a pinned icon to start a new instance. Use the Windows key on your keyboard. Start typing to find an app. Press the Windows key again to toggle back to whatever was just open. Winkey+F to find files instead of apps. Winkey+D for desktop, always. Winkey+L to login/lock screen, where you can shut down. Get rid of the mandatory password/pin by not signing in to your Windows Live account. Better yet, never sign into it in the first place. Don't use Metro IE, Mail or Messages if you want to use desktop apps for those. If you want to use mostly desktop, don't try to mix in Metro apps.

by Avalaxy 14y ago

contextfree 14y ago

Running multiple instances of VS (or any other desktop app) should work the same as before (shift-click on taskbar), not sure what was happening there.

Avalaxy 14y ago
Shift click? Didn't try that yet. I always just click the VS shortcut again, and voilà: a new instance is launched.
- contextfree 14y ago
  Wait, are you opening it from the Start screen? That switches by default instead of opening a new instance, but for desktop apps there's an app command (right click) to open a new window. I'd still recommend shift-click from the taskbar though (same as in Win7).
  - numo16 14y ago
    I think this may be an issue that will be popping up a lot, people thinking that everything has to be started from the start screen when everything works just as it always has from the desktop (minus a start menu, which is actually the start screen).
    - contextfree 14y ago
      I think the issue here is more that he probably didn't know how to start a new instance from the taskbar in Win7 - which is understandable as it's not exactly obvious - and was used to doing it from the start menu. However, you could make a case that switching to an existing instance is the more mainstream expected behavior and starting a new instance is a bit more advanced, so it's ok for it to be tucked away a bit more (but convenient enough once you know how).
ahmelsayed 14y ago
also - right click on the running instance in the task bar and select Visual Studio - middle click on the already running instance in the task bar same as with Windows 7
breakall 14y ago
Once the app is already running and visible in the taskbar, you can right-click the icon in the taskbar, and click the link with the same name as the app (e.g. for Google Chrome, the link I'm talking about says "Google Chrome"). This will open a new instance of the app.

DASD 14y ago

Disregard my questions. I just skimmed the section on windows management and it is as I feared. I don't really understand the Metro "intention(?)" for pcs(and I actually use and like Gnome 3 as my daily driver). I haven't used Windows 8 yet so pardon my possible silly questions. What's the experience of a Metro app on a large screen monitor...always fullscreen? The app is either running or not? Multiple Metro apps displayed/running simultaneously? Is Metro on by default for "pcs?"

usea 14y ago
What's the experience of a Metro app on a large screen monitor...always fullscreen? The app is either running or not? Multiple Metro apps displayed/running simultaneously? Is Metro on by default for "pcs?" Yes. Yes. Sort of. Yes, and you can't turn it off. You can run 2 metro apps at a time. 1 in fullscreen with the other "docked" in a limited mode to the side.
- DASD 14y ago
  Interesting. So doesn't sound possible to divide the screen such as for an editor/Word on one half and to read a PDF or use a browser on the other half?
  - contextfree 14y ago
    Not with Metro apps, on the desktop everything works the same though.
    - DASD 14y ago
      I already dread the number of times I anticipate seeing users with 24"/30" monitors running some Metrofied equivalent of Notepad or Calculator.
      - contextfree 14y ago
        In Windows 8, Notepad and Calculator are still desktop apps only.

mbell 14y ago

> - Start menu gone, wtf? Yes I do use it, and yes I do still click on it with my mouse to find certain things. The new search is worse... If I want 'windows update' I first have to click where I want to search for 'windows update' (and if I can't remember the name of what I'm looking for, this doesn't even work). How do you find anything in a windows start menu? Every application has its own naming scheme and complete control over where it puts itself in there. I consider it one of the worst long standing user experiences that still seems to be promoted/accepted for some unknown reason.

wonderzombie 14y ago
In Win7? Tap the Windows key and type the name of the program. At least for a power user, this is quite nice. It's arguably on par with Spotlight as an application launcher, with similar trade-offs (e.g. multiple matches--- which is the right one?). I'm not a huge fan of Windows, but this is one thing that Win7 (or Vista?) substantially improved over XP.
- mbell 14y ago
  Did you read the quote I replied to? Underscored for clarity: > - Start menu gone, wtf? _____Yes I do use it, and yes I do still click on it with my mouse to find certain things_____.
breakall 14y ago
I totally agree with this. Each new app that I install prompts a new hunt through the Programs part of the Start menu for where the app might have stashed its icons -- would they be in a new folder with the same name as the app? In a folder with the name of the publisher? In the random dump of icons at the top that don't bother to create a folder for themselves? This leads to typing in the name of the app in the search box and letting Windows do this hunting for me. Microsoft's UX research found this as well. People prefer pinning apps Windows 7 to the taskbar over the Start menu[1]. The "hit Windows key and type name of app" scenario is preserved quite nicely with the Start screen. 1. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/10/03/evolving-the-start-menu.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/10/03/evolving-the-s...

josephcooney 14y ago

You can run multiple versions of VS (2012...I haven't checked others). If you pin it to the start menu and right-click and open a new instance it will open a new instance. Agree that this is annoying. It seems like the metro start/find screen takes the focus back to an existing instance by default, rather than launching a new instance. For a user with a fairly simple mental model of how things work this is probably a good thing, but for more advanced users it is a problem.

josephcooney 14y ago
From some of the other comments it looks like shift+click on the metro start screen works to open a new instance (which is the same as the task bar in Win7,8)

magoon 14y ago

Pro tips to alleviate some of the gripes I see here: Shift-click a pinned icon to start a new instance. Use the Windows key on your keyboard. Start typing to find an app. Press the Windows key again to toggle back to whatever was just open. Winkey+F to find files instead of apps. Winkey+D for desktop, always. Winkey+L to login/lock screen, where you can shut down. Get rid of the mandatory password/pin by not signing in to your Windows Live account. Better yet, never sign into it in the first place. Don't use Metro IE, Mail or Messages if you want to use desktop apps for those. If you want to use mostly desktop, don't try to mix in Metro apps.