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It's a shame posts like this get a negative reception here because there's a valid case to be made that Starship is in the very least troubled or possibly even
by jmyeet 1y ago
It's a shame posts like this get a negative reception here because there's a valid case to be made that Starship is in the very least troubled or possibly even a doomed boondoggle.
We've had 9 flights and are still pretty far from entering commercial usage. This is expensive too. I've seen estimates that each launch is costing ~$500 million.
One can make the case that Starship is a classic second system effect [1]. Just like IPv6, which decided it was making breaking changes anyway so why not break all the things (all while not solving the one real problem but that's another story). We see this all the time.
The question is: what problem is Starship solving? Yes it has a larger LEO and geostationary payload but this seems to be a pretty limited market thus far as demonstrated by there only being 11 Falcon Heavy launches total thus far. Launching multiple satellites at once only works for launching on the same or very similar orbit for the same constellation like Starlink. As soon as you drastically change the required orbit, you're talking about a separate launch.
Is it to go to the Moon or Mars? Notably, Elon called the Moon "a distraction" [2]. That doesn't bode well. After all, if your launch system was suited for that, wouldn't you want NASA to pay for it to prove it, basically? Fundamentally, it doesn't make sense to have a vehicle like this to land on the Moon (or Mars) and have your astronauts be 40 meters in the air, having to get down and back up.
And going to Mars I don't htink will happen for decades, if ever commercially. With the right political circumstances we may get Apollo like flights to demonstrate superiority but I think colonization is a joke. Mars is actually a terrible place to colonize. It's like the moon but worse in every single way.
And to even get there SpaceX needs to perfect in-orbit refueling, which is technically challenging and not something they've even started yet since they haven't even got to stable orbit yet.
Oh I disagree with the author about NASA doing this earlier, talking about Saturn rockets. Saturn was an expensive low-yield bespoke rocket not suited for mass production. Every Saturn V was essentially a one-off.
The industry workhorse here is the Falcon 9. It's reliable and high volume (>100 launches a year). Starship may yet sink SpaceX.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-system_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-system_effect
[2]: https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1875023335891026324 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1875023335891026324
- nothercastle 1y agoThere is probably huge military potential for orbital weapons nobody wants to talk about out in public.
- tim333 1y agoI don't mind the negative reception. "Starship is such a moronic project..." It's a negative article that deserves it really.
- martinald 1y agoIf you look at it through the eyes of just Starlink though it makes a lot of sense. The new v3 sats do solve a lot of the problems with Starlink in more (suburban) areas with much more capacity per sat. In a happy path if Starship works and v3 works, each Starship launch would launch ~60Tbit/sec of downstream capacity and ~10Tbit/sec of upstream (ideal world figures yada yada). With falcon 9 and v2 mini, each launch provides ~2Tbit/sec of downstream and ~0.2Tbit/sec of upstream. So roughly 30x the downstream and 50x the upstream. The upstream is probably the critical part to improve as well for congestion (usually upstream gets saturated before downstream in most retail ISP configs, on asymmetrical technologies like DOCSIS and causes terrible user experience). So Spaceship could be ~40x the cost per launch of Falcon 9 and it would still make sense financially. I assume it won't be anywhere near that. And this doesn't take into account how much further Starlink will be on all the other competitors that are trying to spring up. I think if you ignore everything else and just focus on Starlink (which has the potential to be a $100bn/yr business easily) it is worth them rolling the dice. Whether it actually works or not is interesting to discuss - but figures like $500m/launch is really pocket change for the scale/potential scale that Starlink operates in.