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The Ukrainians Just Pulled Off the Most Successful Operation of the War

69 points by mpweiher 1y ago

sleepyguy 1y ago
They wanted nothing to do with this war. Putin invaded a peaceful country that was defenseless. The West dragged its feet, and it took far too long to help with conventional weapons. It forced Ukraine to work without tanks, artillery, Fighter Jets, etc. They innovated and changed warfare forever. What a favor they did for the USA and the West in general. We owe them eternal gratitude. Glory to Ukraine
- forinti 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - audunw 1y ago
    I can’t take this seriously at all. Have you seen what they’re talking about every day on Russian television? You think it’d be better for Ukraine to move from EU/US sphere of influence, and whatever Ukrainian nationalism they’re supposedly propping up, to Russias? Russia will only support one kind of nationalism: Moscovian nationalism. They’re openly talking about cultural genocide on national television. They’re openly talking about reviving the Russian empire and forcing Russian culture upon all its subjects. You can see for yourself on Russian Media Monitor. I can’t believe how naive some of us can be towards Russia when their intentions are so out in the open, and it’s so easy for us to see for ourselves.
    - consumer451 1y ago
      https://www.youtube.com/@russianmediamonitor https://www.youtube.com/@russianmediamonitor
rurban 1y ago
> "Russia bombs schools and hospitals. > Ukraine bombs the planes that bomb schools and hospitals."
- demarq 1y ago
  I think we're past the point of one side is better than the other. > Ukraine targeted a train carrying civilians by blowing up the bridge it was on. Not only this but by now both sides of the conflict have accumulated enough war crimes that it would take an eternity to prosecute them all.
  - jamwil 1y ago
    Russia started the war, unprovoked, on foreign soil. So, no, that’s a false assessment. Every death in this war is Russia’s fault because it is, by definition, Russia’s war.
  - cocacola1 1y ago
    > I think we're past the point of one side is better than the other. This is just demonstrably untrue.
  - avmich 1y ago
    It's a bad idea to avoid comparison with the past, particularly with the World War II, for not a good reason. Comparing this war with WWII, then both sides did a lot of things, yet the conclusion still is that the Hitler deserved to be slain.
  - thecompilr 1y ago
    That rail happens to be as the main military supply route hence it is a completely legitimate military target, civilian deaths are unfortunate. Russia simply blocks entire residential neighborhoods. Yeah let’s pretend it’s the same.
- waltercool 1y ago
  [dead]
gnabgib 1y ago
Previously (79 points, 8 hours ago, 50 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44150789 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44150789 (35 points, 6 hours ago, 27 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44151327 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44151327
LorenPechtel 1y ago
Whether or not they succeeded (and their claims generally do not prove to be exaggerated, so I suspect they did) they just shook up the world's militaries. I doubt there's a base in the world that's truly secure against this sort of attack. And I don't see any reason to suggest AI being involved here. GPS to an initial point, follow a specified bearing and do image recognition. Note the angle at which you are seeing the image, if it doesn't change as you move you're looking at an image, ignore it. This would fall for any reasonably fancy decoy, but that's not going to be enough to protect the facility. I've been saying this for years: with pretty much everything military a bunch of cheap units will give you far more bang for your buck than the same value of expensive units. It used to be that since units required operators you would have a big problem with personnel (although we did see the Kamikazes in Japan), but now that it's a microchip running it that's no longer a factor.
- Nextgrid 1y ago
  > I don't see any reason to suggest AI being involved here. GPS to an initial point, follow a specified bearing and do image recognition Is there a reason to suspect autonomous flying as opposed to remote control via the internet? Whatever deployed those drones can act as a bridge between the drone's radio link and cellular/public Wi-Fi/Starlink.
  - LorenPechtel 1y ago
    If they're not autonomous they can be jammed. Given the amount of drone warfare that has been going on I would consider jamming likely. Also, humans controlling them means a lot of data flying back and forth. IP, bearing, search pattern and image recognition have been around in the world of anti-ship missiles for quite a while.
- mrep 1y ago
  > they just shook up the world's militaries For the good ones, I doubt it. Israel today has trophy [0] which can detect if an rpg is going to hit its tank and shoot it out of the sky. (from wiki): The system allegedly relies heavily on high-speed computational technologies. Upon detection of an incoming projectile, the system automatically computes various parameters, such as the approach vector, nature of the threat, time to impact, and angle of approach. The defensive projectiles are launched by two rotating projectile launchers positioned on the sides of the vehicle. These launchers deploy a number of small EFPs (Explosively Formed Penetrators), forming a precise and closely spaced matrix, targeting an area in front of the anti-tank projectile. And that's one country with 10 million people and a mere $46.5 billion in military spending. And BTW allies generally share tech (we the US suck right now (sorry)) but Trophy is being integrated with multiple allies [1]. Developing automated drone shooting destroyers I think we can do. EDIT: To add, I bet those drones can be shot down by 1 minigun or shotgun shell which aren't relatively expensive. Edit 2, the dutch already have a badass automated minigun too [2, 3]. Edit 3: multiple countries have similar systems but they are all mainly for boats. I think we can adapt the to army bases [4]. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophy_(countermeasure) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophy_(countermeasure) [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophy_(countermeasure)#International_operators https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophy_(countermeasure)#Intern... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goalkeeper_CIWS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goalkeeper_CIWS [3]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AaUNipuygE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AaUNipuygE [4]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close-in_weapon_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close-in_weapon_system
piker 1y ago
Big couple of years for intel organizations. The beepers in Lebanon and now this.
linotype 1y ago
The sheer waste and cost of this war is astonishing.
- fractallyte 1y ago
  It could have been stopped at the outset if our leaders had any wisdom and courage. And it could have been prevented if our former leaders had any ethics and knowledge of history. It's a failure of politics and leadership, at all levels.
- nothercastle 1y ago
  The waste happed when they built the bombers. Now more waste will happen if they build replacements
- tim333 1y ago
  Kind of inherent in full on war in general. Both sides throw what they have into destroying the other.
waltercool 1y ago
[dead]

69 points by mpweiher 1y ago

They wanted nothing to do with this war. Putin invaded a peaceful country that was defenseless. The West dragged its feet, and it took far too long to help with conventional weapons. It forced Ukraine to work without tanks, artillery, Fighter Jets, etc. They innovated and changed warfare forever. What a favor they did for the USA and the West in general. We owe them eternal gratitude. Glory to Ukraine

forinti 1y ago
[flagged]
- audunw 1y ago
  I can’t take this seriously at all. Have you seen what they’re talking about every day on Russian television? You think it’d be better for Ukraine to move from EU/US sphere of influence, and whatever Ukrainian nationalism they’re supposedly propping up, to Russias? Russia will only support one kind of nationalism: Moscovian nationalism. They’re openly talking about cultural genocide on national television. They’re openly talking about reviving the Russian empire and forcing Russian culture upon all its subjects. You can see for yourself on Russian Media Monitor. I can’t believe how naive some of us can be towards Russia when their intentions are so out in the open, and it’s so easy for us to see for ourselves.
  - consumer451 1y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/@russianmediamonitor https://www.youtube.com/@russianmediamonitor

rurban 1y ago

> "Russia bombs schools and hospitals. > Ukraine bombs the planes that bomb schools and hospitals."

demarq 1y ago
I think we're past the point of one side is better than the other. > Ukraine targeted a train carrying civilians by blowing up the bridge it was on. Not only this but by now both sides of the conflict have accumulated enough war crimes that it would take an eternity to prosecute them all.
- jamwil 1y ago
  Russia started the war, unprovoked, on foreign soil. So, no, that’s a false assessment. Every death in this war is Russia’s fault because it is, by definition, Russia’s war.
- cocacola1 1y ago
  > I think we're past the point of one side is better than the other. This is just demonstrably untrue.
- avmich 1y ago
  It's a bad idea to avoid comparison with the past, particularly with the World War II, for not a good reason. Comparing this war with WWII, then both sides did a lot of things, yet the conclusion still is that the Hitler deserved to be slain.
- thecompilr 1y ago
  That rail happens to be as the main military supply route hence it is a completely legitimate military target, civilian deaths are unfortunate. Russia simply blocks entire residential neighborhoods. Yeah let’s pretend it’s the same.
waltercool 1y ago
[dead]

gnabgib 1y ago

Previously (79 points, 8 hours ago, 50 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44150789 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44150789 (35 points, 6 hours ago, 27 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44151327 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44151327

LorenPechtel 1y ago

Whether or not they succeeded (and their claims generally do not prove to be exaggerated, so I suspect they did) they just shook up the world's militaries. I doubt there's a base in the world that's truly secure against this sort of attack. And I don't see any reason to suggest AI being involved here. GPS to an initial point, follow a specified bearing and do image recognition. Note the angle at which you are seeing the image, if it doesn't change as you move you're looking at an image, ignore it. This would fall for any reasonably fancy decoy, but that's not going to be enough to protect the facility. I've been saying this for years: with pretty much everything military a bunch of cheap units will give you far more bang for your buck than the same value of expensive units. It used to be that since units required operators you would have a big problem with personnel (although we did see the Kamikazes in Japan), but now that it's a microchip running it that's no longer a factor.

Nextgrid 1y ago
> I don't see any reason to suggest AI being involved here. GPS to an initial point, follow a specified bearing and do image recognition Is there a reason to suspect autonomous flying as opposed to remote control via the internet? Whatever deployed those drones can act as a bridge between the drone's radio link and cellular/public Wi-Fi/Starlink.
- LorenPechtel 1y ago
  If they're not autonomous they can be jammed. Given the amount of drone warfare that has been going on I would consider jamming likely. Also, humans controlling them means a lot of data flying back and forth. IP, bearing, search pattern and image recognition have been around in the world of anti-ship missiles for quite a while.
mrep 1y ago
> they just shook up the world's militaries For the good ones, I doubt it. Israel today has trophy [0] which can detect if an rpg is going to hit its tank and shoot it out of the sky. (from wiki): The system allegedly relies heavily on high-speed computational technologies. Upon detection of an incoming projectile, the system automatically computes various parameters, such as the approach vector, nature of the threat, time to impact, and angle of approach. The defensive projectiles are launched by two rotating projectile launchers positioned on the sides of the vehicle. These launchers deploy a number of small EFPs (Explosively Formed Penetrators), forming a precise and closely spaced matrix, targeting an area in front of the anti-tank projectile. And that's one country with 10 million people and a mere $46.5 billion in military spending. And BTW allies generally share tech (we the US suck right now (sorry)) but Trophy is being integrated with multiple allies [1]. Developing automated drone shooting destroyers I think we can do. EDIT: To add, I bet those drones can be shot down by 1 minigun or shotgun shell which aren't relatively expensive. Edit 2, the dutch already have a badass automated minigun too [2, 3]. Edit 3: multiple countries have similar systems but they are all mainly for boats. I think we can adapt the to army bases [4]. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophy_(countermeasure) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophy_(countermeasure) [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophy_(countermeasure)#International_operators https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophy_(countermeasure)#Intern... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goalkeeper_CIWS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goalkeeper_CIWS [3]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AaUNipuygE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AaUNipuygE [4]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close-in_weapon_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close-in_weapon_system

piker 1y ago

Big couple of years for intel organizations. The beepers in Lebanon and now this.

linotype 1y ago

The sheer waste and cost of this war is astonishing.

fractallyte 1y ago
It could have been stopped at the outset if our leaders had any wisdom and courage. And it could have been prevented if our former leaders had any ethics and knowledge of history. It's a failure of politics and leadership, at all levels.
nothercastle 1y ago
The waste happed when they built the bombers. Now more waste will happen if they build replacements
tim333 1y ago
Kind of inherent in full on war in general. Both sides throw what they have into destroying the other.

waltercool 1y ago

[dead]