4 ms·

AMD is consistently stacking more HBM. H100 80GB HBM3 H200 141GB HBM3e B200 192GB HBM3e MI300x 192GB HBM3 MI325x 256GB HBM3e MI355x 288GB HBM3e T

AMD is consistently stacking more HBM. H100 80GB HBM3 H200 141GB HBM3e B200 192GB HBM3e MI300x 192GB HBM3 MI325x 256GB HBM3e MI355x 288GB HBM3e This means that you can fit larger and larger models into a single node, without having to go out over the network. The memory bandwidth on AMD is also quite good.

krapht 1y ago
So the MI300x has 8 different memory domains, and although you can treat it as one flat memory space, if you want to reach their advertised peak memory bandwidth you have to work with it like an 8-socket board.
- latchkey 1y ago
  Here is a good article on it: https://rocm.blogs.amd.com/software-tools-optimization/compute-memory-modes/README.html https://rocm.blogs.amd.com/software-tools-optimization/compu...
ryao 1y ago
It really does not matter how much memory AMD has if the drivers and firmware are unstable. To give one example from last year: https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/gpus/amds-lisa-su-steps-in-to-fix-driver-issues-with-new-tinybox-ai-servers-tiny-corp-calls-for-amd-to-make-its-radeon-7900-xtx-gpu-firmware-open-source https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/gpus/amds-lisa-su... They are currently developing their own drivers for AMD hardware because of the headaches that they had with ROCm.
- latchkey 1y ago
  "driver" is such a generic word. tinygrad works on mi300x. If you want to use it, you can. Negates your point. Additionally, ROCm is a giant collection of a whole bunch of libraries. Certainly there are issues, as with any large collection of software, but the critical thing is whether or not AMD is responsive towards getting things fixed. In the past, it was a huge issue, AMD would routinely ignore developers and bugs would never get fixed. But, after that SA article, Lisa lit a fire under Anush's butt and he's taking ownership. It is a major shift in the entire culture at the company. They are extremely responsive and getting things fixed. You can literally tweet your GH issue to him and someone will respond. What is true a year ago isn't today. If you're paying attention like I am, and experiencing it first hand, things are changing, fast.
  - ryao 1y ago
    I have been hearing this about AMD/ATI drivers for decades. Every year, someone says that it is fixed, only for new evidence to come out that they are not. I have no reason to believe it is fixed given the history. Here is evidence to the contrary: If ROCm actually was in good shape, tinygrad would use it instead of developing their own driver.
    - latchkey 1y ago
      We have all been hearing things for decades. Things are noticeably different now. Live in the present, not in the past. Tinygrad isn’t a driver. It is a framework. It is being developed by George however he wants. If he wants to build something that gives him more direct control over things. Fine. Others might write PTX instead if using higher level abstractions. Fact is that tinygrad runs not only on AMD, but also Nvidia and others. You might want to reassess your beliefs because you’re reading into things and coming up with the wrong conclusions.
      - ryao 1y ago
        I read tinygrad’s website: https://tinygrad.org/#tinygrad https://tinygrad.org/#tinygrad Under driver quality for AMD, they say “developing” and point to their git repository. If AMD had fixed the issues, they would instead say the driver quality is great and get more sales. They can still get sales even if they are honest about the state of AMD hardware, since they sell Nvidia hardware too, while your company would risk 0 sales if you say anything other than “everything is fine”, since your business is based on leasing AMD GPUs: https://hotaisle.xyz/pricing/ https://hotaisle.xyz/pricing/ Given your enormous conflict of interest, I will listen to what George Hotz and others are saying over what you say on this matter.
        latchkey 1y ago
        Exactly, it is not a driver. Appreciate you diving more into my business. Yes, we are one of the few that publishes transparent pricing. When we started, we got zero sales, for a long time. Nobody knew if these things performed or not. So we donated hardware and people like ChipsAndCheese started to benchmark and write blog posts. We knew the hardware was good, but the software sucked. 16 or so months later, things have changed and sufficiently improved that now we are at capacity. My deep involvement in this business is exactly how I know what’s going on. Yes, I have a business to run, but at the same time, I was willing to take the risk, when no-one else would, and deploy this compute. To insinuate that I have some sort of conflict of interest is unfair, especially without knowing the full story. At this juncture, I don’t know what point you’re trying to make. We agree the software sucked. Tinygrad now runs on mi300x. Whatever George’s motivations were a year ago are no longer true today. If you feel rocm sucks so badly, go the tinygrad route. Same if you don’t want to be tied to cuda. Choice is a good thing. At the end of the day though, this isn’t a reflection on the hardware at all.
- faldore 1y ago
  That was last year Mi300x firmware and software have gotten much better since then
  - ryao 1y ago
    Unfortunately, AMD and ATI before it have had driver quality issues for decades; and both they and their fans have claimed that they have solved the problems every year since. Even if they have made progress, I doubt that they have reached parity with Nvidia. I have had enough false hope from them that I am convinced that the only way that they will ever improve their drivers if they let another group write the drivers for them. Coincidentally, Valve has been developing the Vulkan driver used by SteamOS and other Linux distributions, which is how SteamOS is so much better than Windows. If AMD could get someone else to work on improving their GPGPU support, we would likely see it become quite good too. Until then, I have very low expectations.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - latchkey 1y ago
      Gaming != HPC
      - ryao 1y ago
        GPUs were originally designed for gaming. Their ability to be used in HPC grew out of that. The history of issues goes back rather far.
        latchkey 1y ago
        Thanks, I totally had no idea what the G stood for. /s Seriously though, you’re clearly stuck in the past. This is tech. It evolves fast. Holding onto grudges just slows you down.
        ryao 1y ago
dragonwriter 1y ago
MI355X isn't out yet, and the upcoming B300 also has 288GB HBM3e
- latchkey 1y ago
  June 12th. B300 is Q4 2025. Yes, they keep leapfrogging each other. AMD is still ahead in vram.

krapht 1y ago

So the MI300x has 8 different memory domains, and although you can treat it as one flat memory space, if you want to reach their advertised peak memory bandwidth you have to work with it like an 8-socket board.

latchkey 1y ago
Here is a good article on it: https://rocm.blogs.amd.com/software-tools-optimization/compute-memory-modes/README.html https://rocm.blogs.amd.com/software-tools-optimization/compu...

ryao 1y ago

It really does not matter how much memory AMD has if the drivers and firmware are unstable. To give one example from last year: https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/gpus/amds-lisa-su-steps-in-to-fix-driver-issues-with-new-tinybox-ai-servers-tiny-corp-calls-for-amd-to-make-its-radeon-7900-xtx-gpu-firmware-open-source https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/gpus/amds-lisa-su... They are currently developing their own drivers for AMD hardware because of the headaches that they had with ROCm.

latchkey 1y ago
"driver" is such a generic word. tinygrad works on mi300x. If you want to use it, you can. Negates your point. Additionally, ROCm is a giant collection of a whole bunch of libraries. Certainly there are issues, as with any large collection of software, but the critical thing is whether or not AMD is responsive towards getting things fixed. In the past, it was a huge issue, AMD would routinely ignore developers and bugs would never get fixed. But, after that SA article, Lisa lit a fire under Anush's butt and he's taking ownership. It is a major shift in the entire culture at the company. They are extremely responsive and getting things fixed. You can literally tweet your GH issue to him and someone will respond. What is true a year ago isn't today. If you're paying attention like I am, and experiencing it first hand, things are changing, fast.
- ryao 1y ago
  I have been hearing this about AMD/ATI drivers for decades. Every year, someone says that it is fixed, only for new evidence to come out that they are not. I have no reason to believe it is fixed given the history. Here is evidence to the contrary: If ROCm actually was in good shape, tinygrad would use it instead of developing their own driver.
  - latchkey 1y ago
    We have all been hearing things for decades. Things are noticeably different now. Live in the present, not in the past. Tinygrad isn’t a driver. It is a framework. It is being developed by George however he wants. If he wants to build something that gives him more direct control over things. Fine. Others might write PTX instead if using higher level abstractions. Fact is that tinygrad runs not only on AMD, but also Nvidia and others. You might want to reassess your beliefs because you’re reading into things and coming up with the wrong conclusions.
    - ryao 1y ago
      I read tinygrad’s website: https://tinygrad.org/#tinygrad https://tinygrad.org/#tinygrad Under driver quality for AMD, they say “developing” and point to their git repository. If AMD had fixed the issues, they would instead say the driver quality is great and get more sales. They can still get sales even if they are honest about the state of AMD hardware, since they sell Nvidia hardware too, while your company would risk 0 sales if you say anything other than “everything is fine”, since your business is based on leasing AMD GPUs: https://hotaisle.xyz/pricing/ https://hotaisle.xyz/pricing/ Given your enormous conflict of interest, I will listen to what George Hotz and others are saying over what you say on this matter.
      - latchkey 1y ago
        Exactly, it is not a driver. Appreciate you diving more into my business. Yes, we are one of the few that publishes transparent pricing. When we started, we got zero sales, for a long time. Nobody knew if these things performed or not. So we donated hardware and people like ChipsAndCheese started to benchmark and write blog posts. We knew the hardware was good, but the software sucked. 16 or so months later, things have changed and sufficiently improved that now we are at capacity. My deep involvement in this business is exactly how I know what’s going on. Yes, I have a business to run, but at the same time, I was willing to take the risk, when no-one else would, and deploy this compute. To insinuate that I have some sort of conflict of interest is unfair, especially without knowing the full story. At this juncture, I don’t know what point you’re trying to make. We agree the software sucked. Tinygrad now runs on mi300x. Whatever George’s motivations were a year ago are no longer true today. If you feel rocm sucks so badly, go the tinygrad route. Same if you don’t want to be tied to cuda. Choice is a good thing. At the end of the day though, this isn’t a reflection on the hardware at all.
faldore 1y ago
That was last year Mi300x firmware and software have gotten much better since then
- ryao 1y ago
  Unfortunately, AMD and ATI before it have had driver quality issues for decades; and both they and their fans have claimed that they have solved the problems every year since. Even if they have made progress, I doubt that they have reached parity with Nvidia. I have had enough false hope from them that I am convinced that the only way that they will ever improve their drivers if they let another group write the drivers for them. Coincidentally, Valve has been developing the Vulkan driver used by SteamOS and other Linux distributions, which is how SteamOS is so much better than Windows. If AMD could get someone else to work on improving their GPGPU support, we would likely see it become quite good too. Until then, I have very low expectations.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - latchkey 1y ago
    Gaming != HPC
    - ryao 1y ago
      GPUs were originally designed for gaming. Their ability to be used in HPC grew out of that. The history of issues goes back rather far.
      - latchkey 1y ago
        Thanks, I totally had no idea what the G stood for. /s Seriously though, you’re clearly stuck in the past. This is tech. It evolves fast. Holding onto grudges just slows you down.
        ryao 1y ago

dragonwriter 1y ago

MI355X isn't out yet, and the upcoming B300 also has 288GB HBM3e

latchkey 1y ago
June 12th. B300 is Q4 2025. Yes, they keep leapfrogging each other. AMD is still ahead in vram.