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The author has never lived in the US, but thinks he knows the American mindset of life? An the author lived in Germany, but generalizes his experiences there to

by amai 1y ago

The author has never lived in the US, but thinks he knows the American mindset of life? An the author lived in Germany, but generalizes his experiences there to all of Europe? The author should refrain from geographical comparisons and instead simply say "The materialistic vs the altruistic mindset." Because surprise, surprise you will find materialistic and altruistic people on both sides of the Atlantic.

atoav 1y ago
As someone who lived and traveled across Europe the Author being in Germany even makes this a stronger point. Most of Southern and Western Europe culturally has even less materialism than Germany and similar to the North. If I'd try to look for slightly more materialistic European areas it would be everything post-soviet or post-jugoslavian, but even there only to a certain degree. The main difference between the US and the EU is especially in how materialism is shown. In the US there is a strong trend to equate wealth with visible wealth, while in the EU that son of an Empire with three castles might look like a regular guy when you see him with his slightly upstandard car buying groceries at his retailer. Ans I know such people. European rich people don't look rich if you meet them, because displaying your wealth ostentaciously is seen as vulgar. Rich people feel they need to give back to society, so even if they have castles they are used for exhibitions or other community purposes. This of course also exists in the US, but to a lesser degree and more often as a turn of the century sort of legacy thing
- ndriscoll 1y ago
  > In the US there is a strong trend to equate wealth with visible wealth That doesn't sound right to me. Visible wealth has always been something I've equated with "came into some unexpected money (probably not even that much) and immediately blew it" even when my family was not exactly wealthy. As I once saw it put on reddit, things like Gucci are what poor people think rich people buy. My impression has always been that rich people generally don't want to draw attention to themselves in the US either. Celebrities may flaunt their wealth (and may distort people's perception of what wealthy people are like), but their whole deal is drawing attention to themselves so that makes sense.
  - atoav 1y ago
    I should have added that this isn't just a personal feeling. Differing consumer sentiment is a field that has been extensively studied (it is useful to know consumer sentiment if you're a US company trying to sell stuff in the EU or vice versa). This one is a good read: Rözer, J., Lancee, B. & Volker, B. Keeping Up or Giving Up? Income Inequality and Materialism in Europe and the United States. Soc Indic Res 159, 647–666 (2022), see<https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11205-021-02760-1 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11205-021-02760-1>
    - ndriscoll 1y ago
      From your link: > Interestingly, Americans report, on average, a weaker materialistic value orientation than Europeans (US average = 1.39, Europe average = 2.08 on a scale from 0 to 5)... However, in both continents, we find a positive association between inequality and materialism: the higher the level of income inequality is, the higher the level of materialistic values is as well. This doesn't really dispute my understanding, which is that "luxury brands" like Gucci are what lower class poor people buy to feel rich; actual rich people (except specific groups like celebrities who even then might be getting paid to wear "luxury" items) generally do not buy these things. It could be that I grew up in AZ which is near the bottom on the materialism scale, but I've never known conspicuous consumption to be anything other than tacky. Except for SF techies, the rich people I've known have generally been penny pinchers.

by amai 1y ago

atoav 1y ago

As someone who lived and traveled across Europe the Author being in Germany even makes this a stronger point. Most of Southern and Western Europe culturally has even less materialism than Germany and similar to the North. If I'd try to look for slightly more materialistic European areas it would be everything post-soviet or post-jugoslavian, but even there only to a certain degree. The main difference between the US and the EU is especially in how materialism is shown. In the US there is a strong trend to equate wealth with visible wealth, while in the EU that son of an Empire with three castles might look like a regular guy when you see him with his slightly upstandard car buying groceries at his retailer. Ans I know such people. European rich people don't look rich if you meet them, because displaying your wealth ostentaciously is seen as vulgar. Rich people feel they need to give back to society, so even if they have castles they are used for exhibitions or other community purposes. This of course also exists in the US, but to a lesser degree and more often as a turn of the century sort of legacy thing

ndriscoll 1y ago
> In the US there is a strong trend to equate wealth with visible wealth That doesn't sound right to me. Visible wealth has always been something I've equated with "came into some unexpected money (probably not even that much) and immediately blew it" even when my family was not exactly wealthy. As I once saw it put on reddit, things like Gucci are what poor people think rich people buy. My impression has always been that rich people generally don't want to draw attention to themselves in the US either. Celebrities may flaunt their wealth (and may distort people's perception of what wealthy people are like), but their whole deal is drawing attention to themselves so that makes sense.
- atoav 1y ago
  I should have added that this isn't just a personal feeling. Differing consumer sentiment is a field that has been extensively studied (it is useful to know consumer sentiment if you're a US company trying to sell stuff in the EU or vice versa). This one is a good read: Rözer, J., Lancee, B. & Volker, B. Keeping Up or Giving Up? Income Inequality and Materialism in Europe and the United States. Soc Indic Res 159, 647–666 (2022), see<https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11205-021-02760-1 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11205-021-02760-1>
  - ndriscoll 1y ago
    From your link: > Interestingly, Americans report, on average, a weaker materialistic value orientation than Europeans (US average = 1.39, Europe average = 2.08 on a scale from 0 to 5)... However, in both continents, we find a positive association between inequality and materialism: the higher the level of income inequality is, the higher the level of materialistic values is as well. This doesn't really dispute my understanding, which is that "luxury brands" like Gucci are what lower class poor people buy to feel rich; actual rich people (except specific groups like celebrities who even then might be getting paid to wear "luxury" items) generally do not buy these things. It could be that I grew up in AZ which is near the bottom on the materialism scale, but I've never known conspicuous consumption to be anything other than tacky. Except for SF techies, the rich people I've known have generally been penny pinchers.