6 ms·

U+D for a button means you can’t go up or down at the same or is there a trick?

msephton 1y ago
I think what was meant was using fire+directions to trigger additional virtual buttons. Many games did this in software anyway.
- alexisread 1y ago
  Just that you can't go up and down at the same time, so it's a valid electrical signal for another button, and importantly standard so games would take advantage of it.
  - toast0 1y ago
    Sure, but if U+D is button 2, you can't register up or down and button 2 together. You need another wire, a serial protocol, or whatever sega did for the 6-button genesis/mega drive controller (i think a toggle?)
    - brulard 1y ago
      This would be my question as well. If i go up, and pressing this button 2, then the output signal does not know if i'm going up or down or none of those.
      - alexisread 1y ago
        The code will be polling the input, so it's effectively quantized, and games can treat movement as a vector. Seems to work ok: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atHTzwcx4Og https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atHTzwcx4Og Obviously it'd be better to have a protocol like the megadrive, but given the setup in the ST, this is a hack without having to change the ST hardware.
        toast0 1y ago
        That works for Metal Slug for the grenade, because a) you don't hold down the grenade button, b) you don't have a lot of grenades so you don't use them that often so you won't really notice any weirdness like if you duck and grenade simultaneously the duck doesn't happen until you let go of the grenade button. If the up+down button was used for firing the main weapon, this wouldn't work, especially when you've got the machine gun and you can just hold the button down. You wouldn't be able to duck or aim up while shooting, or it would be unreliable. If you were trying to use it for a three button fighting game, I think you'd have problems too. Especially if you are doing 'negative edge' techniques where you would hold a button while inputting the directional sequence and release the button to trigger the special.
tom_ 1y ago
You can't go up and down simultaneously on a joystick anyway! The stick can't go both ways at once. So this gives you the option of reusing these signal combinations for other kinds of input.
- msk-lywenn 1y ago
  I meant pressing the u+d button and actually going up (pressing just u, which means not d) at the same time.
  - tom_ 1y ago
    Oh, good point, yes. It's just a combination of inputs rather than some kind of stream of states isn't it. I'm rusty. The 9 pin pinout has 2 spare button inputs anyway. Maybe it'd be feasible to use those.

I think what was meant was using fire+directions to trigger additional virtual buttons. Many games did this in software anyway.

alexisread 1y ago
Just that you can't go up and down at the same time, so it's a valid electrical signal for another button, and importantly standard so games would take advantage of it.
- toast0 1y ago
  Sure, but if U+D is button 2, you can't register up or down and button 2 together. You need another wire, a serial protocol, or whatever sega did for the 6-button genesis/mega drive controller (i think a toggle?)
  - brulard 1y ago
    This would be my question as well. If i go up, and pressing this button 2, then the output signal does not know if i'm going up or down or none of those.
    - alexisread 1y ago
      The code will be polling the input, so it's effectively quantized, and games can treat movement as a vector. Seems to work ok: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atHTzwcx4Og https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atHTzwcx4Og Obviously it'd be better to have a protocol like the megadrive, but given the setup in the ST, this is a hack without having to change the ST hardware.
      - toast0 1y ago
        That works for Metal Slug for the grenade, because a) you don't hold down the grenade button, b) you don't have a lot of grenades so you don't use them that often so you won't really notice any weirdness like if you duck and grenade simultaneously the duck doesn't happen until you let go of the grenade button. If the up+down button was used for firing the main weapon, this wouldn't work, especially when you've got the machine gun and you can just hold the button down. You wouldn't be able to duck or aim up while shooting, or it would be unreliable. If you were trying to use it for a three button fighting game, I think you'd have problems too. Especially if you are doing 'negative edge' techniques where you would hold a button while inputting the directional sequence and release the button to trigger the special.

tom_ 1y ago

You can't go up and down simultaneously on a joystick anyway! The stick can't go both ways at once. So this gives you the option of reusing these signal combinations for other kinds of input.

msk-lywenn 1y ago
I meant pressing the u+d button and actually going up (pressing just u, which means not d) at the same time.
- tom_ 1y ago
  Oh, good point, yes. It's just a combination of inputs rather than some kind of stream of states isn't it. I'm rusty. The 9 pin pinout has 2 spare button inputs anyway. Maybe it'd be feasible to use those.