3 ms·

Not all parents are responsible. FB, Google, and others have shown no desire to combat mass manipulation or to combat the psychological harm their services can

Not all parents are responsible. FB, Google, and others have shown no desire to combat mass manipulation or to combat the psychological harm their services can do. It is appropriate for society to force the issue.

like_any_other 1y ago
Then that is those parents right. It's not up to a supra-national entity to step in and decide how their children may be raised. And please don't "well we already forbid child labor and sex abuse, so why not pick which websites they're permitted to access or books to read" motte-and-bailey this.
- redczar 1y ago
  All societies enforce standards of care for kids and all societies try to intervene when those standards are not met. In the U.S. we require that parents educate their kids. We require that parents provide a level of care for their kids. We require parents to use safety devices when their kids travel in cars. We don’t allow parents to give pornography to their kids. We don’t allow parents to give their kids beer. It is reasonable for society to set standards. Enforcing online standards is appropriate in my opinion. It isn’t in yours. I hope your view does not have broad support.
  - like_any_other 1y ago
    > It is reasonable for society to set standards. Enforcing online standards is appropriate in my opinion. What those standards are, and how they are enforced, matters. We got a glimpse of what can happen with the UK online safety act, as websites went offline or left the UK - even when their content was as mild as a bicycling forum, they couldn't handle the burdensome bureaucracy and vague demands [1] imposed on them. Laws have consequences beyond their stated intentions. And this seems ripe for such abuse - corporations will be falling over themselves to keep the under-18 market, and the call-out to "harmful content" tells me they'll do their best to ban topics that whoever is in power currently could deem "harmful". You don't trust parents to enable a filter on their kids' devices. I don't trust the EU to shape online discourse and determine what is harmful information, to act as censor for the coming generation's upbringing. [1] They don't tell you exactly what to do or what is banned, but give vague outlines, forcing you to guess. If you guess wrong and censor too little, you are liable. If you guess wrong and censor too much, no problems.
    - redczar 1y ago
      …and the call-out to "harmful content" tells me they'll do their best to ban topics that whoever is in power currently could deem "harmful". Parents can teach their kids the topics that government bans on social media.
      - like_any_other 1y ago
        We know the power of defaults.
        redczar 1y ago
        I think the humor was lost on you. Your argumentment has been to leave it up to parents. So I did as a rebuttal. I guess you don’t agree that it’s all up to parents.
    - TFYS 1y ago
      If online discourse is not shaped by the EU or European governments, it will be shaped by even less trustworthy entities. It will be shaped by US, China and Russia based organizations, and they will tear the EU apart from multiple directions. The EU needs this if it's to stay alive, even with the risks involved. We just need to be extremely careful that we don't let undemocratic parties get control of this system. That will be easier if we have better control over how much disinformation other powers are able to feed us.

like_any_other 1y ago

Then that is those parents right. It's not up to a supra-national entity to step in and decide how their children may be raised. And please don't "well we already forbid child labor and sex abuse, so why not pick which websites they're permitted to access or books to read" motte-and-bailey this.

redczar 1y ago
All societies enforce standards of care for kids and all societies try to intervene when those standards are not met. In the U.S. we require that parents educate their kids. We require that parents provide a level of care for their kids. We require parents to use safety devices when their kids travel in cars. We don’t allow parents to give pornography to their kids. We don’t allow parents to give their kids beer. It is reasonable for society to set standards. Enforcing online standards is appropriate in my opinion. It isn’t in yours. I hope your view does not have broad support.
- like_any_other 1y ago
  > It is reasonable for society to set standards. Enforcing online standards is appropriate in my opinion. What those standards are, and how they are enforced, matters. We got a glimpse of what can happen with the UK online safety act, as websites went offline or left the UK - even when their content was as mild as a bicycling forum, they couldn't handle the burdensome bureaucracy and vague demands [1] imposed on them. Laws have consequences beyond their stated intentions. And this seems ripe for such abuse - corporations will be falling over themselves to keep the under-18 market, and the call-out to "harmful content" tells me they'll do their best to ban topics that whoever is in power currently could deem "harmful". You don't trust parents to enable a filter on their kids' devices. I don't trust the EU to shape online discourse and determine what is harmful information, to act as censor for the coming generation's upbringing. [1] They don't tell you exactly what to do or what is banned, but give vague outlines, forcing you to guess. If you guess wrong and censor too little, you are liable. If you guess wrong and censor too much, no problems.
  - redczar 1y ago
    …and the call-out to "harmful content" tells me they'll do their best to ban topics that whoever is in power currently could deem "harmful". Parents can teach their kids the topics that government bans on social media.
    - like_any_other 1y ago
      We know the power of defaults.
      - redczar 1y ago
        I think the humor was lost on you. Your argumentment has been to leave it up to parents. So I did as a rebuttal. I guess you don’t agree that it’s all up to parents.
  - TFYS 1y ago
    If online discourse is not shaped by the EU or European governments, it will be shaped by even less trustworthy entities. It will be shaped by US, China and Russia based organizations, and they will tear the EU apart from multiple directions. The EU needs this if it's to stay alive, even with the risks involved. We just need to be extremely careful that we don't let undemocratic parties get control of this system. That will be easier if we have better control over how much disinformation other powers are able to feed us.