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I don’t know, I still really value the original trilogy. It’s just very, very different in some crucial ways. One aspect that’s really striking when you see An

I don’t know, I still really value the original trilogy. It’s just very, very different in some crucial ways. One aspect that’s really striking when you see Andor is how little the Jedi and the Force have to do with it; which highlights how central they are to the original trilogy. (Rogue One does a pretty deft job of bridging those worlds, eg with Donnie Yen’s character.) And the Force was a big part of the charm of the original movies, right? All the scenes with Luke and Yoda are wonderful, for example. I wouldn’t want to take that away, any more than I’d want to shoehorn the Jedi into Andor. I think the real problem with the original movies starts with the prequels, which doubled down on all the Jedi business but managed to make it feel very pedestrian, rather than mystical. The sequel movies could have been great if they had really tried to explore the collapse of the Empire and what the reconstruction would look like, rather than shamelessly retreading everything beat-for-beat. The Last Jedi did at least try to be different, but its ideas were completely scattershot and (I think) not very fruitful.

JKCalhoun 1y ago
"The Force" never sat well with me. It was the one weird supernatural thing in the Star Wars universe that pushed the whole franchise into "magic" territory. The less Force, the better in my opinion. Save super-powers for comic-book movies.
- meowface 1y ago
  A bit of it is interesting. When they're just flinging objects/debris/rocks at each other for 10 minutes it's pretty silly, but the force-choking scenes are some of the most iconic Star Wars moments. Adds something to the world.
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- WD-42 1y ago
  I thought it worked in the original trilogy because it was much more subtle, but still powerful. You watch Luke struggle to harness it over the span of 3 movies. In the recent Disney movies (Andor being the exception) it’s like they gave everyone the force, everyone is a super hero, it’s bombastic and annoying.
  - atoav 1y ago
    This is btw. what I hate with so many modern RPGs, you are a nobody but within 5 minutes of playing you are already extremely awesome and look like a shiny knight on a white horse. Let me run around with a rock and a stick for the first hour. Then give me a sword that looks cheap but I will cherish it. Then take it away. Let me earn it when I am awesome in the end. To many games treat you like a toddler that wants shiny things. Yeah I want shiny things, but I want them when I deserved them. Similarily, yeah, I want powerful heros, but they have to earn it as well.
    - mrunkel 1y ago
      Check out the Kingdom Come Deliverance series. Sure, you'll be a badass at the end, but you're going to earn it. :)
    - cropcirclbureau 1y ago
      Check out FromSoft games. EldenRing drops loot and equipment so rarely it drove me up a well.
- gmueckl 1y ago
  Star Wars was never science fiction. It has always been treated as fantasy with space ships by its creators. The nature of its setting is really much closer to Harry Potter than e.g. the Expanse.
  - krapp 1y ago
    I don't know, plenty of "science fiction" has telepaths and psionics, especially from the 1970s and 80s. Star Trek had it since the original series. If your standard for what science fiction is us The Expanse then almost all of what's considered science fiction is fantasy.
    - gmueckl 1y ago
      Even the Expanse has fantastical elements like the protomolecule and the Epstein drive. The difference is that it is closer to classic science fiction authors like Asimov, Clarke or Niven in that this body of work tries hard to keep some grounding in extrapolated scientific models. Star Wars doesn't even claim to attempt this. It is a world of entirely made up rules and places for the sake of the story. There is nothing wrong with that. But it completely misses this key feature of sci fi. There isn't a very clear delineation between the two genres. Star Trek also crosses this line into pure fantasy pretty consistently (an anomaly that compells everybody to sing and eventually produces a Klingon boy band performance? Or one that gives everybody amnesia and turns them into actors in Shakespeare drama - costumes and all?).
      - krapp 1y ago
        Most science fiction is closer to Star Wars than The Expanse, and Star Wars is more grounded in plausible reality than Star Trek, which no one tags as "science fantasy." If Andor didn't have "Star Wars" branding, I don't think anyone would have a problem considering it science fiction in the grand tradition of a lot of MilSF. I'm not saying the distinction doesn't exist - The Hobbit isn't SF and Ringworld isn't high fantasy, but I am saying that between the extremes, it's mostly just vibes. There is no objective reason not to consider Star Wars science fiction, some people just find the space wizards too silly (while having a bookshelf full of "The author's barely disguised fetish or hyperfixation but In Spaaaaace.")
- atoav 1y ago
  The force was okay for me when it was treated seriously and not as a plot vehicle that could suddenly do things that are not plausible within the rules of the universe so far.
jajko 1y ago
Its like being raised from earliest age with some religion (any, really, they are all equal in good and bad ways) vs somebody who wasn't. The thickness of rose-tinted glasses is something that's hard to argue about rationally. I wasn't in both cases, communists considered it a capitalist propaganda about US might and banned it (maybe just heard about Star wars being US space program, took just first result on soviet gugel so to speak, but fight for freedom at all costs is generally not something you want to encourage in dictatorship). They are an interesting flick (original trilogy), but nothing really magical for me in them. As mentioned by others they feel like 80s pop sci fi movie, nothing more, characters and acting are... mediocre and it all feels aimed at kids/teens. A lot of creativity with sets, but that's not primary reason for me to watch a movie. Since I refuse (can't even) to be swayed emotionally of some good ol' memories from growing up, prequels felt even more childish (maybe apart from ep3), and this trend continued with last 3 movies. Rogue one was by far the best experience in whole SW universe, so if this goes even further happy to experience it.

JKCalhoun 1y ago

"The Force" never sat well with me. It was the one weird supernatural thing in the Star Wars universe that pushed the whole franchise into "magic" territory. The less Force, the better in my opinion. Save super-powers for comic-book movies.

meowface 1y ago
A bit of it is interesting. When they're just flinging objects/debris/rocks at each other for 10 minutes it's pretty silly, but the force-choking scenes are some of the most iconic Star Wars moments. Adds something to the world.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 1y ago
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WD-42 1y ago
I thought it worked in the original trilogy because it was much more subtle, but still powerful. You watch Luke struggle to harness it over the span of 3 movies. In the recent Disney movies (Andor being the exception) it’s like they gave everyone the force, everyone is a super hero, it’s bombastic and annoying.
- atoav 1y ago
  This is btw. what I hate with so many modern RPGs, you are a nobody but within 5 minutes of playing you are already extremely awesome and look like a shiny knight on a white horse. Let me run around with a rock and a stick for the first hour. Then give me a sword that looks cheap but I will cherish it. Then take it away. Let me earn it when I am awesome in the end. To many games treat you like a toddler that wants shiny things. Yeah I want shiny things, but I want them when I deserved them. Similarily, yeah, I want powerful heros, but they have to earn it as well.
  - mrunkel 1y ago
    Check out the Kingdom Come Deliverance series. Sure, you'll be a badass at the end, but you're going to earn it. :)
  - cropcirclbureau 1y ago
    Check out FromSoft games. EldenRing drops loot and equipment so rarely it drove me up a well.
gmueckl 1y ago
Star Wars was never science fiction. It has always been treated as fantasy with space ships by its creators. The nature of its setting is really much closer to Harry Potter than e.g. the Expanse.
- krapp 1y ago
  I don't know, plenty of "science fiction" has telepaths and psionics, especially from the 1970s and 80s. Star Trek had it since the original series. If your standard for what science fiction is us The Expanse then almost all of what's considered science fiction is fantasy.
  - gmueckl 1y ago
    Even the Expanse has fantastical elements like the protomolecule and the Epstein drive. The difference is that it is closer to classic science fiction authors like Asimov, Clarke or Niven in that this body of work tries hard to keep some grounding in extrapolated scientific models. Star Wars doesn't even claim to attempt this. It is a world of entirely made up rules and places for the sake of the story. There is nothing wrong with that. But it completely misses this key feature of sci fi. There isn't a very clear delineation between the two genres. Star Trek also crosses this line into pure fantasy pretty consistently (an anomaly that compells everybody to sing and eventually produces a Klingon boy band performance? Or one that gives everybody amnesia and turns them into actors in Shakespeare drama - costumes and all?).
    - krapp 1y ago
      Most science fiction is closer to Star Wars than The Expanse, and Star Wars is more grounded in plausible reality than Star Trek, which no one tags as "science fantasy." If Andor didn't have "Star Wars" branding, I don't think anyone would have a problem considering it science fiction in the grand tradition of a lot of MilSF. I'm not saying the distinction doesn't exist - The Hobbit isn't SF and Ringworld isn't high fantasy, but I am saying that between the extremes, it's mostly just vibes. There is no objective reason not to consider Star Wars science fiction, some people just find the space wizards too silly (while having a bookshelf full of "The author's barely disguised fetish or hyperfixation but In Spaaaaace.")
atoav 1y ago
The force was okay for me when it was treated seriously and not as a plot vehicle that could suddenly do things that are not plausible within the rules of the universe so far.

jajko 1y ago

Its like being raised from earliest age with some religion (any, really, they are all equal in good and bad ways) vs somebody who wasn't. The thickness of rose-tinted glasses is something that's hard to argue about rationally. I wasn't in both cases, communists considered it a capitalist propaganda about US might and banned it (maybe just heard about Star wars being US space program, took just first result on soviet gugel so to speak, but fight for freedom at all costs is generally not something you want to encourage in dictatorship). They are an interesting flick (original trilogy), but nothing really magical for me in them. As mentioned by others they feel like 80s pop sci fi movie, nothing more, characters and acting are... mediocre and it all feels aimed at kids/teens. A lot of creativity with sets, but that's not primary reason for me to watch a movie. Since I refuse (can't even) to be swayed emotionally of some good ol' memories from growing up, prequels felt even more childish (maybe apart from ep3), and this trend continued with last 3 movies. Rogue one was by far the best experience in whole SW universe, so if this goes even further happy to experience it.