4 ms·

Seasteading is one way to find out.

by pietro 18y ago

davidw 18y ago
I am not a libertarian, and think there are serious flaws with their reasoning. However, I think it's great that they're willing to go try and build something of their own. That solves a lot of problems of trying to convince everyone else to do things their way, so I really hope it goes well for them.
- gaius 18y ago
  I am sick of people tarring Libertarianism with the Anarcho-Capitalist brush. There will not be slaves under a Libertarian government because the #1 responsibility of a Libertarian government and the duty of every good Libertarian citizen is to act to prevent coercion. With decisive physical force if necessary. Maximization of societal freedom, not individual wealth, is the Libertarian goal. There might be indentured labour of course, but that's a whole 'nother discussion.
  - davidw 18y ago
    Err.. ok, but you could have attached that to a different comment. I wasn't talking about slavery or anything, just that I'm not a libertarian, and think it has issues. Slavery probably isn't one of them.
  - cturner 18y ago
    Hmm. But what about bankruptsy? Is it compatible with strong libertarianism? If you outlaw slavery in itself, would effective slavery emerge?
- Prrometheus 18y ago
  To belabor a common libertarian point: one virtue of the marketplace is choice. Different individuals can make different choices. This has advantages over the political system, where one choice is made for everybody. Maybe you think Social Security is a poor investment for 14% of your income, maybe you think your local school should offer more courses in area X. Too bad. If you don't have a 51% majority, a person willing to run as a political candidate that agrees with you, two years to campaign, and millions to billions of dollars, you won't get your choice. However, in the market for retirement products you just call up your broker. In the market for schools, you just pick the one you like best (admittedly choice is a little lacking in the school market, due to a government near-monopoly and heavy regulation).
  - davidw 18y ago
    > made for everybody. For, and by everyone (or nearly everyone), which does confer on it some amount of legitimacy. Still though, I agree that if people are able to go off and try new things, that's a good thing.
    - Prrometheus 18y ago
      My sister can tell you how little a democratic voice matters from 18 years of getting outvoted by my brother and I. The Tamils in Sri Lanka, the Chinese in Malaysia, and the Sunnis in Iraq might also disagree with you about the legitimacy of mob-rules democracy. I really don't see why people think they have some "input" in democratic decisions, other than decades of conditioning in schools run by a democratic government. Try submitting a story and getting it to the front page of Digg. You have approximately zero chance. Your influence over public policy is much, much smaller. Once you realize that there are more than two choices for any given policy decision, in fact there are almost as many choices as there are people, then you realize how incredibly farcical your "democratic voice" is.

Seasteading is one way to find out.

by pietro 18y ago

Seasteading is one way to find out.

I am not a libertarian, and think there are serious flaws with their reasoning. However, I think it's great that they're willing to go try and build something of their own. That solves a lot of problems of trying to convince everyone else to do things their way, so I really hope it goes well for them.

gaius 18y ago
I am sick of people tarring Libertarianism with the Anarcho-Capitalist brush. There will not be slaves under a Libertarian government because the #1 responsibility of a Libertarian government and the duty of every good Libertarian citizen is to act to prevent coercion. With decisive physical force if necessary. Maximization of societal freedom, not individual wealth, is the Libertarian goal. There might be indentured labour of course, but that's a whole 'nother discussion.
- davidw 18y ago
  Err.. ok, but you could have attached that to a different comment. I wasn't talking about slavery or anything, just that I'm not a libertarian, and think it has issues. Slavery probably isn't one of them.
- cturner 18y ago
  Hmm. But what about bankruptsy? Is it compatible with strong libertarianism? If you outlaw slavery in itself, would effective slavery emerge?
Prrometheus 18y ago
To belabor a common libertarian point: one virtue of the marketplace is choice. Different individuals can make different choices. This has advantages over the political system, where one choice is made for everybody. Maybe you think Social Security is a poor investment for 14% of your income, maybe you think your local school should offer more courses in area X. Too bad. If you don't have a 51% majority, a person willing to run as a political candidate that agrees with you, two years to campaign, and millions to billions of dollars, you won't get your choice. However, in the market for retirement products you just call up your broker. In the market for schools, you just pick the one you like best (admittedly choice is a little lacking in the school market, due to a government near-monopoly and heavy regulation).
- davidw 18y ago
  > made for everybody. For, and by everyone (or nearly everyone), which does confer on it some amount of legitimacy. Still though, I agree that if people are able to go off and try new things, that's a good thing.
  - Prrometheus 18y ago
    My sister can tell you how little a democratic voice matters from 18 years of getting outvoted by my brother and I. The Tamils in Sri Lanka, the Chinese in Malaysia, and the Sunnis in Iraq might also disagree with you about the legitimacy of mob-rules democracy. I really don't see why people think they have some "input" in democratic decisions, other than decades of conditioning in schools run by a democratic government. Try submitting a story and getting it to the front page of Digg. You have approximately zero chance. Your influence over public policy is much, much smaller. Once you realize that there are more than two choices for any given policy decision, in fact there are almost as many choices as there are people, then you realize how incredibly farcical your "democratic voice" is.