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If you haven't watched Andor and you are at all open to sci-fi then I would urge you to consider giving a go. The writing, acting, and cinematography are all ex

If you haven't watched Andor and you are at all open to sci-fi then I would urge you to consider giving a go. The writing, acting, and cinematography are all excellent, and IMO it is a very strong contender for the best TV show released in the last few years.

peeters 1y ago
> you are at all open to sci-fi That is to say, a sci-fi setting. Andor would not be correctly put in the sci-fi genre, rather in the political thriller genre.
- atq2119 1y ago
  That's the thing about sci-fi: almost all good sci-fi stories are really sci-fi + X, where X is some other genre. Often adventure or mystery, sometimes horror, and in this case political thriller / spy story.
  - ragazzina 1y ago
    Isn't that true for every genre?
  - lolinder 1y ago
    I'm trying to figure out what sci-fi not crossed with something else even means. Even most of the great works of classic sci-fi of the 20th century draw tropes and plot points from other genres.
- fsloth 1y ago
  I'm not sure why some plots would be off-limits in sci-fi genre? Isn't setting limits antithesis to the whole idea of sci-fi?
  - peeters 1y ago
    I guess like with all categorization, genres are reductive generalizations. And I'm saying the sci-fi generalization is much less descriptive of Andor than the political thriller generalization is. You could transplant Andor to WWII historical fiction and it would be less of a change than changing the mood and story to fit what most people's preconceived notions of sci-fi is. I guess in short, I'm saying that you really don't have to be open to the sci fi genre to enjoy Andor.
    - fsloth 1y ago
      Interesting, I would not consider mood and story descriptive of sci-fi at all. Rather sci-fi adds speculative and fantastic elements to a world still populated by humans / beings of relatable psychology. And once you have relatable psychology you also get politics and weaponization of information (what the show was mostly about) - political thriller. Agree, those elements were damn good ones. And I loved the utilization of WW 2 analogues - French resistance, Spanish civil war, Wansee conference etc etc I would say the show was very _grounded_ in that the high stakes were about humans doing human things. What sets Andor apart is _excellence_ and (partly budget driven) restraint. Not only was the acting superb, the script was intelligent. But then the attention to visual detail was next level as well. The sets and costumes were mind blowingly good. For example I was convinced they had to had found some real life location for the Ghorman plaza (nope, built set + CGI). I would love to have a plaza like that. Not many shows have so good fictional architecture you would love to see the real thing. So I was totally impressed with the show. But in my books it’s still sci-fi. It’s probably the best recent serialized sci-fi show in the last decade along with the Expanse. If I’m reading between the lines what you are saying is that ”Andor is actually intelligent and high quality art … sci-fi can’t be high quality art”? I’m exaggerating to make a point.
      - peeters 1y ago
        > If I’m reading between the lines what you are saying is that ”Andor is actually intelligent and high quality art … sci-fi can’t be high quality art”? I’m exaggerating to make a point. Nope not at all, for example I personally would put the Expanse firmly in the genre of sci-fi. The major themes it explores centre around its setting; it doesn't happen to exist in a futuristic space setting; the entire show would cease to function as a concept without it. Major plot lines exist specifically to explore the "what-ifs" of that fictional future. And honestly, while I acknowledge it's intelligent and extremely well loved by its fans, it's one that I'd have trouble recommending to people that aren't big into sci fi, for that reason. But compare that to something like Firefly, where's it's basically a heist/western that happens to be set in outer space.
- aidenn0 1y ago
  Sci-fi (and fantasy) are settings, not genres.
meowface 1y ago
It makes me wish it were the actual start of the franchise and then they made Rogue One and the trilogy de novo. In that counterfactual I think there's a good shot it'd be far better than the originals, and the Star Wars story would be considered not just a classic but a masterpiece. (I don't think the original trilogy is bad exactly, but the trilogy with the Andor look/feel/style/writing/acting could've been some of the best films ever.)
- iainmerrick 1y ago
  I don’t know, I still really value the original trilogy. It’s just very, very different in some crucial ways. One aspect that’s really striking when you see Andor is how little the Jedi and the Force have to do with it; which highlights how central they are to the original trilogy. (Rogue One does a pretty deft job of bridging those worlds, eg with Donnie Yen’s character.) And the Force was a big part of the charm of the original movies, right? All the scenes with Luke and Yoda are wonderful, for example. I wouldn’t want to take that away, any more than I’d want to shoehorn the Jedi into Andor. I think the real problem with the original movies starts with the prequels, which doubled down on all the Jedi business but managed to make it feel very pedestrian, rather than mystical. The sequel movies could have been great if they had really tried to explore the collapse of the Empire and what the reconstruction would look like, rather than shamelessly retreading everything beat-for-beat. The Last Jedi did at least try to be different, but its ideas were completely scattershot and (I think) not very fruitful.
  - JKCalhoun 1y ago
    "The Force" never sat well with me. It was the one weird supernatural thing in the Star Wars universe that pushed the whole franchise into "magic" territory. The less Force, the better in my opinion. Save super-powers for comic-book movies.
    - meowface 1y ago
      A bit of it is interesting. When they're just flinging objects/debris/rocks at each other for 10 minutes it's pretty silly, but the force-choking scenes are some of the most iconic Star Wars moments. Adds something to the world.
mmplxx 1y ago
Also the music, it has an impressive original soundtrack, I love how they play with opening variations.
whatnow37373 1y ago
It’s not sci-fi though. If Star Wars is sci-fi then Jurassic Park is a biology documentary.
- whilenot-dev 1y ago
  ...or Westworld (1973) a western
hei-lima 1y ago
Strongly agree!

peeters 1y ago

> you are at all open to sci-fi That is to say, a sci-fi setting. Andor would not be correctly put in the sci-fi genre, rather in the political thriller genre.

atq2119 1y ago
That's the thing about sci-fi: almost all good sci-fi stories are really sci-fi + X, where X is some other genre. Often adventure or mystery, sometimes horror, and in this case political thriller / spy story.
- ragazzina 1y ago
  Isn't that true for every genre?
- lolinder 1y ago
  I'm trying to figure out what sci-fi not crossed with something else even means. Even most of the great works of classic sci-fi of the 20th century draw tropes and plot points from other genres.
fsloth 1y ago
I'm not sure why some plots would be off-limits in sci-fi genre? Isn't setting limits antithesis to the whole idea of sci-fi?
- peeters 1y ago
  I guess like with all categorization, genres are reductive generalizations. And I'm saying the sci-fi generalization is much less descriptive of Andor than the political thriller generalization is. You could transplant Andor to WWII historical fiction and it would be less of a change than changing the mood and story to fit what most people's preconceived notions of sci-fi is. I guess in short, I'm saying that you really don't have to be open to the sci fi genre to enjoy Andor.
  - fsloth 1y ago
    Interesting, I would not consider mood and story descriptive of sci-fi at all. Rather sci-fi adds speculative and fantastic elements to a world still populated by humans / beings of relatable psychology. And once you have relatable psychology you also get politics and weaponization of information (what the show was mostly about) - political thriller. Agree, those elements were damn good ones. And I loved the utilization of WW 2 analogues - French resistance, Spanish civil war, Wansee conference etc etc I would say the show was very _grounded_ in that the high stakes were about humans doing human things. What sets Andor apart is _excellence_ and (partly budget driven) restraint. Not only was the acting superb, the script was intelligent. But then the attention to visual detail was next level as well. The sets and costumes were mind blowingly good. For example I was convinced they had to had found some real life location for the Ghorman plaza (nope, built set + CGI). I would love to have a plaza like that. Not many shows have so good fictional architecture you would love to see the real thing. So I was totally impressed with the show. But in my books it’s still sci-fi. It’s probably the best recent serialized sci-fi show in the last decade along with the Expanse. If I’m reading between the lines what you are saying is that ”Andor is actually intelligent and high quality art … sci-fi can’t be high quality art”? I’m exaggerating to make a point.
    - peeters 1y ago
      > If I’m reading between the lines what you are saying is that ”Andor is actually intelligent and high quality art … sci-fi can’t be high quality art”? I’m exaggerating to make a point. Nope not at all, for example I personally would put the Expanse firmly in the genre of sci-fi. The major themes it explores centre around its setting; it doesn't happen to exist in a futuristic space setting; the entire show would cease to function as a concept without it. Major plot lines exist specifically to explore the "what-ifs" of that fictional future. And honestly, while I acknowledge it's intelligent and extremely well loved by its fans, it's one that I'd have trouble recommending to people that aren't big into sci fi, for that reason. But compare that to something like Firefly, where's it's basically a heist/western that happens to be set in outer space.
aidenn0 1y ago
Sci-fi (and fantasy) are settings, not genres.

meowface 1y ago

It makes me wish it were the actual start of the franchise and then they made Rogue One and the trilogy de novo. In that counterfactual I think there's a good shot it'd be far better than the originals, and the Star Wars story would be considered not just a classic but a masterpiece. (I don't think the original trilogy is bad exactly, but the trilogy with the Andor look/feel/style/writing/acting could've been some of the best films ever.)

iainmerrick 1y ago
I don’t know, I still really value the original trilogy. It’s just very, very different in some crucial ways. One aspect that’s really striking when you see Andor is how little the Jedi and the Force have to do with it; which highlights how central they are to the original trilogy. (Rogue One does a pretty deft job of bridging those worlds, eg with Donnie Yen’s character.) And the Force was a big part of the charm of the original movies, right? All the scenes with Luke and Yoda are wonderful, for example. I wouldn’t want to take that away, any more than I’d want to shoehorn the Jedi into Andor. I think the real problem with the original movies starts with the prequels, which doubled down on all the Jedi business but managed to make it feel very pedestrian, rather than mystical. The sequel movies could have been great if they had really tried to explore the collapse of the Empire and what the reconstruction would look like, rather than shamelessly retreading everything beat-for-beat. The Last Jedi did at least try to be different, but its ideas were completely scattershot and (I think) not very fruitful.
- JKCalhoun 1y ago
  "The Force" never sat well with me. It was the one weird supernatural thing in the Star Wars universe that pushed the whole franchise into "magic" territory. The less Force, the better in my opinion. Save super-powers for comic-book movies.
  - meowface 1y ago
    A bit of it is interesting. When they're just flinging objects/debris/rocks at each other for 10 minutes it's pretty silly, but the force-choking scenes are some of the most iconic Star Wars moments. Adds something to the world.

mmplxx 1y ago

Also the music, it has an impressive original soundtrack, I love how they play with opening variations.

whatnow37373 1y ago

It’s not sci-fi though. If Star Wars is sci-fi then Jurassic Park is a biology documentary.

whilenot-dev 1y ago
...or Westworld (1973) a western

hei-lima 1y ago

Strongly agree!