4 ms·

A person's true character comes out in hard times. A disciplined character will handle hard times well. An undisciplined character will not. Compassion exists

A person's true character comes out in hard times. A disciplined character will handle hard times well. An undisciplined character will not. Compassion exists, sure. But morality doesn't disappear just because something bad happens. Compassion should be sought after before resorting to cheating, not after.

squigz 1y ago
A person's true character is not set in stone, nor can it be generally measured by a single incident.
- ThunderSizzle 1y ago
  It's very much like climate. And like climate, you can use it to certainly predict typical weather, such as a desert not gaining much rain. If you are disciplined in morality and have a well-trained conscience, that will tend to follow you as long as you keep up the discpline.
mithametacs 1y ago
Awful take. Everyone is capable of murder in the right circumstances. That doesn’t make everyone a murderer.
- andrewflnr 1y ago
  > Everyone is capable of murder in the right circumstances. Citation needed. I don't think this is true, and if it was it wouldn't change anything. Notably, the individual level of circumstances required matters a lot, pragmatically even if you don't care in principle.
  - throwaway31131 1y ago
    And there is some significant evidence that it is not true. Think about training soldiers and the concept of “non-firers”. I’m not an expert on those things but the fact that training soldiers to kill is hard, and no one has a great solution even after a lot of effort, and passive combat personnel concepts even exist at all, I think gives evidence to the idea that not everyone can be a murderer, even under extreme circumstances. “ Gen. S.L.A. Marshall once described war as “the business of killing”. And yet many war-fighters throughout history have gone out of their way to avoid it. Marshall himself estimated (though some say he exaggerated, or even fabricated) that only 15-25 per cent of infantry soldiers in the Second World War fired their weapons in any given battle. The rest were so-called “non-firers”; they had the opportunity to shoot at enemy soldiers but failed to do so. Marshall added that even those who did shoot often deliberately missed their target — they were so-called “mis-firers”. These “passive combat personnel”, as they are sometimes called, have long been a thorn in the side of military institutions. War is a “competition in death and destruction”, in the words of Henry Shue, and these individuals deliberately forego opportunities to score points for their own team.” https://www.abc.net.au/religion/ned-dobos-military-training-and-moral-damage/12925446 https://www.abc.net.au/religion/ned-dobos-military-training-...
    - andrewflnr 1y ago
      To be fair, on the grand scale of possible circumstances that might drive someone to murder, being a soldier is relatively common but not that high. The more interesting cases involve intense personal hate, possibly for revenge for extreme injury, or reasons that blur the line with self-defense or defense of a loved one. But I think a lot of people would still require unfeasibly extreme circumstances, if they could do it at all.
- ThunderSizzle 1y ago
  Everyone is a monster, that is true. And I agree that anyone can _kill_ in the right circumstance (e.g. self defense, etc), but I strongly disagree that any disciplined moral character will easily become a murderer overnight. However, the part you miss is the keyword discipline. To be discipline in morality means that you are aware you can be a monster and you actively choose not to be, even if it means what appears to be a negative outcome for you, relatively speaking. Morality isn't free. It's not easy, and it requires diligent practice, aka it's a discipline. By the time your in college, you should have enough discipline to not cheat. If you don't, you have a very untrained conscience.

squigz 1y ago

A person's true character is not set in stone, nor can it be generally measured by a single incident.

ThunderSizzle 1y ago
It's very much like climate. And like climate, you can use it to certainly predict typical weather, such as a desert not gaining much rain. If you are disciplined in morality and have a well-trained conscience, that will tend to follow you as long as you keep up the discpline.

mithametacs 1y ago

Awful take. Everyone is capable of murder in the right circumstances. That doesn’t make everyone a murderer.

andrewflnr 1y ago
> Everyone is capable of murder in the right circumstances. Citation needed. I don't think this is true, and if it was it wouldn't change anything. Notably, the individual level of circumstances required matters a lot, pragmatically even if you don't care in principle.
- throwaway31131 1y ago
  And there is some significant evidence that it is not true. Think about training soldiers and the concept of “non-firers”. I’m not an expert on those things but the fact that training soldiers to kill is hard, and no one has a great solution even after a lot of effort, and passive combat personnel concepts even exist at all, I think gives evidence to the idea that not everyone can be a murderer, even under extreme circumstances. “ Gen. S.L.A. Marshall once described war as “the business of killing”. And yet many war-fighters throughout history have gone out of their way to avoid it. Marshall himself estimated (though some say he exaggerated, or even fabricated) that only 15-25 per cent of infantry soldiers in the Second World War fired their weapons in any given battle. The rest were so-called “non-firers”; they had the opportunity to shoot at enemy soldiers but failed to do so. Marshall added that even those who did shoot often deliberately missed their target — they were so-called “mis-firers”. These “passive combat personnel”, as they are sometimes called, have long been a thorn in the side of military institutions. War is a “competition in death and destruction”, in the words of Henry Shue, and these individuals deliberately forego opportunities to score points for their own team.” https://www.abc.net.au/religion/ned-dobos-military-training-and-moral-damage/12925446 https://www.abc.net.au/religion/ned-dobos-military-training-...
  - andrewflnr 1y ago
    To be fair, on the grand scale of possible circumstances that might drive someone to murder, being a soldier is relatively common but not that high. The more interesting cases involve intense personal hate, possibly for revenge for extreme injury, or reasons that blur the line with self-defense or defense of a loved one. But I think a lot of people would still require unfeasibly extreme circumstances, if they could do it at all.
ThunderSizzle 1y ago
Everyone is a monster, that is true. And I agree that anyone can _kill_ in the right circumstance (e.g. self defense, etc), but I strongly disagree that any disciplined moral character will easily become a murderer overnight. However, the part you miss is the keyword discipline. To be discipline in morality means that you are aware you can be a monster and you actively choose not to be, even if it means what appears to be a negative outcome for you, relatively speaking. Morality isn't free. It's not easy, and it requires diligent practice, aka it's a discipline. By the time your in college, you should have enough discipline to not cheat. If you don't, you have a very untrained conscience.