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How to Read a Novel
- curtisszmania 1y ago[dead]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- jihadjihad 1y ago> But my admiration for Middlemarch and Bleak House goes beyond their portrayal of the psychological interiority of their characters. [...] Both novels succeed at something else: they invite us to think across multiple scales of experience—and to make causal and associative connections between those different layers. To toss another into the ring, I can't think of any novel I've read that could rival The Brothers Karamazov in this regard. Possibly East of Eden, but as great as it is it plumbs nowhere near the moral and psychological depths of Dostoevsky.
- KaoruAoiShiho 1y agoLol I always laugh when I see people talk up Dostoevsky and any 19th century writer. It's 2025 now and literature has improved in depth and characterization as much as any other field.
- zettapwn 1y ago[dead]
- almostgotcaught 1y agoWeird take - how exactly could literature improve "in depth and characterization"? What new "technology" has been made available to authors that enables them to create deeper characters?
- voisin 1y agoNot OP, but breadth and depth of understanding about psychology have improved dramatically and exposure to diverse viewpoints thanks to hyper connectedness likely make it possible to go deeper.
- bowsamic 1y agoIn my opinion, all the best art expresses the "unknown knowns" of the human, i.e., the unconscious that has not been brought to light. Art is an expression of what is really true but not known. Knowing about it doesn't make it easier to express. To bring up the old trope, the curtains are never just blue, not in the sense that the artist is always putting in some conscious meaning, but that the choice of blue says something about the artist's human feeling even if they didn't intend it
- zabzonk 1y ago> breadth and depth of understanding about psychology have improved dramatically Provide one tiny bit of evidence for this. Do you seriously think that Shakespeare (for e.g.) did not have a profound understanding of human psychology?
- KaoruAoiShiho 1y agoIf he did it's not shown in his writing, or really any pre-20th century writers really.
- daseiner1 1y agothis is bait
- zabzonk 1y agohave you read any pre-20th C writers? Or any novels or plays at all?
- KaoruAoiShiho 1y ago
- bowsamic 1y agoI don't like Dostoevsky but this is an insane take. Art doesn't just "get better" over time and depth and characterisation isn't everything either. Homer's Odyssey is still an incredible and fulfilling read. Literature is not some kind of engineering discipline though a lot of new writers seem to be almost like analytic philosophers in that they think newer = better while having some kind of sterile and formalistic understanding of art
- KaoruAoiShiho 1y agodepth and characterization isn't everything but it's the discussion chosen by the OP, he seemed to imply that Dostoevsky had the best psychological interiority and "multiple scales of experience".
- kstrauser 1y agoYou’re nuts. I read “Crime and Punishment” a couple years ago, and went in knowing literally nothing about it except that it was famous. It was astonishingly good. It felt fresh, modern, and claustrophobically suspenseful in a way I wouldn’t have believed possible for a book that age. If you don’t like it, fine. Preferences are a thing and we don’t all have to enjoy the same stuff. But to dismiss it as obsolete or out of touch is madness. It’s a classic for a reason. Along those lines, I read “Moby Dick” last year for the first time. Now I’m annoyed with everyone who led me to imagine it as some dusty tome to slog through. It’s hilarious. Ishmael’s a sarcastic smartass with a lot to say. Some of the classic are classics for a reason, ya know?
- KaoruAoiShiho 1y agoI might've conveyed myself poorly. Never said Dostoevsky wasn't great or not a relevant read! I was just reacting to the OP who seemed to say it's still the best ever. But we've improved everything, art, kites, the wheel. It's the same for literature, but you do have to get pretty deep into lit to see though. The main criticism for I have for Dostoevsky is that he's overdramatic. Yes it's great fun fiction and a vast improvement over the simpler, more idealized writing of much of his era, but some of the angst of his characters is simply cultural. He has a lot of religious influence in his work (which don't appeal to me as an atheist) and their struggles for the human soul is a symptom of his time. A Buddhist might say, just calm the fuck down man. Most people don't react to horrible situations by "crashing out", but via coping and rationalization and making the best of their situation, that's how you get consistent improvement and accrue generational uplift. Later writers like Virginia Woolf is able to better integrate a variety of responses to suffering, post modernists like Tao Lin even gets overly detached (everyone hates post modernists). But I think the best novel about the human condition ever written, which handles the drama, but realistically, is probably by Elena Ferrante in 2011. I'm not highlighting any underrated work here lol, it's widely acclaimed, including called the best book of the 21st century by the NYT.
- internet_points 1y ago> Most people don't react to horrible situations by "crashing out", but via coping and rationalization and making the best of their situation, that's how you get consistent improvement and accrue generational uplift. Most people I've known do not react rationally to horrible situations. Or even to good situations.
- rererereferred 1y agoWhat's a good novel from the last 20 years? Genuine question. Looking back at everything I've read, it all has been older than that. I don't really pay attention to novel news so it's more like I only read stuff I've heard about in the past.
- KaoruAoiShiho 1y agoI recommended a book in my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44181274 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44181274
- CesareBorgia 1y agoThis is a great list: https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueLit/comments/1fwciah/truelits_100_best_books_of_the_quarter_century/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueLit/comments/1fwciah/truelits_1...
- giraffe_lady 1y agoI am absolutely not trying to sustain the other commenter's claim that modern fiction is better lol. I also don't tend to stay on top of contemporary fiction, a lot of stuff gets hyped and well reviewed but just isn't that great. Or it had a lot of resonance for the specific time it was written that lessens as time passes. And of course the extreme selection bias, not all good books "survive" but most of the ones that do are good on at least some qualities. But there is definitely still excellent fiction being written now. The last sumurai by helen dewitt, or the gray house by mariam petrosyan I would place with the likes of middlemarch and anna karenina.
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- happytoexplain 1y ago>literature has improved in depth and characterization as much as any other field. It hasn't. 1. Many fields experiencing development over the past century or two are much newer than literature, which might as well be a synonym for thought. During that time, those newer fields were, or currently are, in their early rapid-growth phase. 2. Literature is deeply on the subjective side of "fields", so it's a lot easier to argue that it has changed, rather than that it has improved.
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- mykowebhn 1y agoI agree that Dostoyevsky's psychological insights were profound. Maybe it doesn't exhibit the same psychological depths, but morally and philosophically I would also recommend Robert Musil's The Man Without Qualities. It is still psychologically profound (although perhaps not at Dostoyevsky's level) and it provides a very detailed picture of society in turn-of-the-century (20th century) Austria. It's one of the greatest novels about ideas I've come across.
- pickledoyster 1y agothe single takeaway from this book ad of a post: the CEO of Stripe claims to have read 10 novels/yr. Which is either a boast of how much free time he has or how he skimmed through some major novels. Third option: a lie.
- KaoruAoiShiho 1y agoI did 30 novels a year in highschool, it's nothing crazy. Though tbf kids do have more free time than working adults, I think it would really only drop if you become parents though.
- patrickmay 1y agoThat's one every five weeks. Middlemarch is roughly 900 pages. Assuming one reads five evenings a week, that's 36 pages per sitting. Each page is roughly 300 words. An average reading speed is about 250 words per minute; let's knock that down to 200 for denser works like those discussed. That's 54 minutes of reading per day. Hardly a huge time commitment, especially as a way to decompress from the day.
- veridies 1y agoIf one reads a page a minute, which is a pretty decent rule of thumb, then a 600 page novel takes you ten hours, and reading ten of those takes you 100 hours. That’s reading for roughly 20 minutes a night over a year, taking some days off. Not the most common hobby nowadays, but hardly inconceivable for a busy person.
- bowsamic 1y agoAre we really in an age where reading 10 novels a year is considered unbelievable?
- zabzonk 1y agoProbably yes - according to some estimates the average person may only read one, or less.
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- ednite 1y agoSteven Johnson encourages us to think across multiple scales of experience when reading 19th-century novels. I agree and I’d argue Don Quixote, written in the early 1600s, was the prototype. Don Quixote has always been one of my favorite books because it genuinely entertains me on a deep level. Every time I return to it, I’m pulled into a world that’s funny, sad, strange, and timeless. Long before modern psychology, Cervantes captured the messy, conflicted inner life of someone trying to make sense of a changing world. Books like this still matter, not just as stories, but as a way to practice seeing the world in layers, something that helps us stay grounded and think more clearly in today’s fast-moving, story-saturated world.
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- nilirl 1y agoThe post does not answer 'How to Read a Novel'. Most of the post is devoted to 'Why I think fiction is useful'. The author's answer: vicarious learning. Author answers how to maybe rank and choose a book: Book that provides recognizable experience of human decision making is better than book that does not. Which is fine. But not 'How to Read a Novel'.
- mock-possum 1y agoHow to read a novel, step one: pick up the book. Gaze upon the cover. What is the title? Is there imagery? Does the face include the author’s name, or any other text? Turn it edgewise, take in the spine - and then spare a glance for the back. What might be written on the pages beneath the cover?
- vonnik 1y agoThis is very true! I felt like the writer didn't really get what novels are for, and it explains why he decided he's a better fit for non-fiction. He seemed to be explaining novel utility to a bunch of imaginary STEM grads. Personally, I read for the metempsychosis. Like Zelig but with authors, a briefly shared subjectivity that shapes whatever I go back to when I put the book down. Reading novels helps me escape the tyranny of my own mind (just like reading history helps us escape the tyranny of our own time, as the man said). In a way I feel like the West meditates through novels.
- romperstomper 1y agoThis is why I mostly gave up to read anything on substack - articles there often have quite catchy titles but at the end they often are not related to article's contents.
- daxfohl 1y agoI went through the same phase a couple decades ago and also came out with Middlemarch on top. Oddly I'd never heard of it prior, and only grabbed it because it was in some classics list at B&N. It didn't seem like anything I expected to like, but I was astounded. The one book I couldn't understand all the hoopla about was Faust. Even after reading it twice, it just seemed like a banal overplayed moral tale. Maybe it only works in German?
- crims0n 1y agoReading literary fiction is such an enriching activity in life, I highly recommend it. If you don't know where to start (and you need to retrain your attention span), pick up an audiobook. I started with Jeremy Iron's reading of Lolita. Nabokov's prose read in Iron's voice will make a believer out of anyone.