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There's a lot to unpack here. In my opinion (and observation), the majority of the population worldwide wants a boat. Whether it's attainable or socially accep

There's a lot to unpack here. In my opinion (and observation), the majority of the population worldwide wants a boat. Whether it's attainable or socially acceptable depends on where you live. In America it is attainable and mostly socially acceptable. You can't fault people for grabbing their dream when it's within reach. Most immigrants want to move to the US because they can "buy a boat". It's literally the point. People really really love meat. They don't need much persuasion to resist any message that says what they love is bad. Like, people love meat so much that it's probably something our bodies want and need over other forms of sustenance. I'm not sure why so many people think that there's an effective brainwashing campaign behind all of this. I think it's just what individual, free thinking people want.

chneu 1y ago
Again, WHY do people want things they don't need? Because advertising tells them to. Because culture tells them to. Because propaganda tells them to. Because nationalism tells them to. In the US, and other hyper-captalist countries, this is in overdrive. It's reinforced by the propaganda we're given as children that the US is the greatest country to ever exist and that justifies our insane consumption. God chose america to be great and lead the world, therefore any destruction we do is justified. This isn't an original idea by me. You can find people talking about this going back over a century. You seem to be confirming what I'm saying because you're making excuses for overconsumption without admitting that all people are influenced by media/advertising/propaganda. Denying this is denying reality. We are all influenced by these things to some degree. The important part is being able to recognize it and be honest about your justifications for your consumption. That's the issue; people don't reflect on these things because they feel bad or it challenges their privilege. This "sunk cost guilt" is discussed frequently in psychology circles. I have a lot of international friends from all walks of life. This is something I talk about regularly with people. Americans(and folks from other hyper-capitalist countries) really struggle with this. It's really frustrating talking to Americans about this because they just deny it and make excuses. Meanwhile, people who are aware of it are making fun of Americans for it. There's a reason americans are seen as loud, ignorant, over consuming fools to much of the world. You are right though, there are plenty of people who see the overconsumption in the US and want it. No denying that. But again, why? Lots of media telling them america is the greatest country that's ever existed or will exist and if ya move here you too can consume as much as you want. Becoming a US citizen, for many folks, is gaining that right to overconsume in ways that are often looked down upon in their home countries. Again, the question is not IF you're influenced to overconsume, it's to what degree are you influenced and whether you can recognize it. If you can't/won't recognize it then you can't begin to check that consumption. In much of America this is the norm. If something challenges that overconsumption, say an environmentalist group, they will be attacked for challenging America's greatness(which is the right to overconsume/conquer/destroy). Why do you think it's the norm for Americans to shit on people who care about the environment? Because those people challenge their right to overconsume. Trump literally ran on this premise and won. So any denial of this premise is denying an obvious reality that we are living through. Drill baby drill! Let's bring back great american coal! Let's conquer more lands because America is the greatest thing to ever happen. Make American Great Again! (sarcasm) Americans really struggle to even recognize this concept. This is not an original concept by me. This is discussed all over the place. I first learned about it almost 15 years ago while attending a speech at MIT. https://sites.uab.edu/humanrights/2023/10/24/the-excessive-nature-of-overconsumption-in-american-culture/ https://sites.uab.edu/humanrights/2023/10/24/the-excessive-n... https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13569317.2022.2112126 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13569317.2022.2... https://bppj.studentorg.berkeley.edu/2020/11/12/the-dangers-of-teaching-american-exceptionalism/ https://bppj.studentorg.berkeley.edu/2020/11/12/the-dangers-... https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/664594 https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/664594 https://yalebooks.yale.edu/2017/02/28/a-brief-history-of-american-exceptionalism/ https://yalebooks.yale.edu/2017/02/28/a-brief-history-of-ame... https://www.collegiatetimes.com/lifestyle/wryly-reilly-the-myth-of-american-exceptionalism/article_86c60949-5f51-52b1-bb60-141a519ef46d.html https://www.collegiatetimes.com/lifestyle/wryly-reilly-the-m... Then you have this blatant propaganda from the Heritage Foundation: https://www.heritage.org/american-history/lecture/why-american-exceptionalism-different-other-nations-nationalisms https://www.heritage.org/american-history/lecture/why-americ... Also somewhat related, the podcast "Our Fake History" just finished up a multi-part series that talks about the concept of the "Spartan Myth". The Spartan Myth is the way that nearly all nations have used sparta in propaganda. They do this with misinformation, misinterpretation, etc of spartan history. Sebastian brings up many great points that are relevant to this discussion. The series is worth a listen. https://ourfakehistory.com/ https://ourfakehistory.com/ At the very least, I hope my comments here will make people reflect on the ways we are influenced. If we can't even recognize that we're influenced then we can't begin to account for it. A lot of people cannot even admit they're influenced because of their ego. But yeah, at least entertain the idea.
- d0gsg0w00f 1y ago
  The point is that you _can_ buy a boat. That's freedom. That's what people love. Some realize, correctly, that it won't make them happy. What people love about America is the freedom to choose. That's the philosophy that they fight for.

chneu 1y ago

Again, WHY do people want things they don't need? Because advertising tells them to. Because culture tells them to. Because propaganda tells them to. Because nationalism tells them to. In the US, and other hyper-captalist countries, this is in overdrive. It's reinforced by the propaganda we're given as children that the US is the greatest country to ever exist and that justifies our insane consumption. God chose america to be great and lead the world, therefore any destruction we do is justified. This isn't an original idea by me. You can find people talking about this going back over a century. You seem to be confirming what I'm saying because you're making excuses for overconsumption without admitting that all people are influenced by media/advertising/propaganda. Denying this is denying reality. We are all influenced by these things to some degree. The important part is being able to recognize it and be honest about your justifications for your consumption. That's the issue; people don't reflect on these things because they feel bad or it challenges their privilege. This "sunk cost guilt" is discussed frequently in psychology circles. I have a lot of international friends from all walks of life. This is something I talk about regularly with people. Americans(and folks from other hyper-capitalist countries) really struggle with this. It's really frustrating talking to Americans about this because they just deny it and make excuses. Meanwhile, people who are aware of it are making fun of Americans for it. There's a reason americans are seen as loud, ignorant, over consuming fools to much of the world. You are right though, there are plenty of people who see the overconsumption in the US and want it. No denying that. But again, why? Lots of media telling them america is the greatest country that's ever existed or will exist and if ya move here you too can consume as much as you want. Becoming a US citizen, for many folks, is gaining that right to overconsume in ways that are often looked down upon in their home countries. Again, the question is not IF you're influenced to overconsume, it's to what degree are you influenced and whether you can recognize it. If you can't/won't recognize it then you can't begin to check that consumption. In much of America this is the norm. If something challenges that overconsumption, say an environmentalist group, they will be attacked for challenging America's greatness(which is the right to overconsume/conquer/destroy). Why do you think it's the norm for Americans to shit on people who care about the environment? Because those people challenge their right to overconsume. Trump literally ran on this premise and won. So any denial of this premise is denying an obvious reality that we are living through. Drill baby drill! Let's bring back great american coal! Let's conquer more lands because America is the greatest thing to ever happen. Make American Great Again! (sarcasm) Americans really struggle to even recognize this concept. This is not an original concept by me. This is discussed all over the place. I first learned about it almost 15 years ago while attending a speech at MIT. https://sites.uab.edu/humanrights/2023/10/24/the-excessive-nature-of-overconsumption-in-american-culture/ https://sites.uab.edu/humanrights/2023/10/24/the-excessive-n... https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13569317.2022.2112126 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13569317.2022.2... https://bppj.studentorg.berkeley.edu/2020/11/12/the-dangers-of-teaching-american-exceptionalism/ https://bppj.studentorg.berkeley.edu/2020/11/12/the-dangers-... https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/664594 https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/664594 https://yalebooks.yale.edu/2017/02/28/a-brief-history-of-american-exceptionalism/ https://yalebooks.yale.edu/2017/02/28/a-brief-history-of-ame... https://www.collegiatetimes.com/lifestyle/wryly-reilly-the-myth-of-american-exceptionalism/article_86c60949-5f51-52b1-bb60-141a519ef46d.html https://www.collegiatetimes.com/lifestyle/wryly-reilly-the-m... Then you have this blatant propaganda from the Heritage Foundation: https://www.heritage.org/american-history/lecture/why-american-exceptionalism-different-other-nations-nationalisms https://www.heritage.org/american-history/lecture/why-americ... Also somewhat related, the podcast "Our Fake History" just finished up a multi-part series that talks about the concept of the "Spartan Myth". The Spartan Myth is the way that nearly all nations have used sparta in propaganda. They do this with misinformation, misinterpretation, etc of spartan history. Sebastian brings up many great points that are relevant to this discussion. The series is worth a listen. https://ourfakehistory.com/ https://ourfakehistory.com/ At the very least, I hope my comments here will make people reflect on the ways we are influenced. If we can't even recognize that we're influenced then we can't begin to account for it. A lot of people cannot even admit they're influenced because of their ego. But yeah, at least entertain the idea.

d0gsg0w00f 1y ago
The point is that you _can_ buy a boat. That's freedom. That's what people love. Some realize, correctly, that it won't make them happy. What people love about America is the freedom to choose. That's the philosophy that they fight for.