7 ms·

Interesting post, though $70k to live in San Francisco? That's going to be pretty tough, honestly it's crazy expensive here.

colmvp 14y ago
Honestly not that hard, especially if you live in a shared apartment. Plus if you look at his benefits, it looks like they cover some living, food, internet, and gym expenses. I grew up with friends who lived in NYC earning less than 35k a year with no such benefits. Now THAT was tough.
- cellis 14y ago
  NYC may have been high then, but it isn't near SF now. http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/nyc-cost-of-living-is-bad-try-living-in-sf http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/nyc-cost-of-living-is-...
  - jwoah12 14y ago
    Everything I've seen has shown NYC is still slightly higher than SF. Do you have any sources other than this one guy's personal experience?
  - colmvp 14y ago
    Even so, she is getting rent subsidy which rounds out to be $1,000 per month ($12,000 for the year). With that in mind, it's not hard to find a shared apartment for less than $2000 in SF/Oakland/Peninsula. Now if she wants her own 2BR or 1BR, sure she'll have to shell out more.
  - usaar333 14y ago
    That guys' definition of acceptable area must be 3 blocks. I just hunted for a one bedroom place last month and was finding wonderful places for ~$2,200 to $2,300; that's the equivalent of a 2 bedroom just under $3,00. There is no way that San Francisco has higher rent than Manhattan: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/08/rent-manhattan-may-2012_n_1580945.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/08/rent-manhattan-may-... Those numbers blow away San Francisco.
bitcrusher 14y ago
I was thinking the same thing. The negotiation was interesting, but 70K in the city, even with a rent subsidy from the company is tough. Hopefully they don't have a lot of overhead beyond eating.
ChuckMcM 14y ago
Did you miss the rent subsidy part? It was listed at $12K, so $1K/month. But lets step back from that for a moment. $70K gross income. Lets say you put $2K into an IRA (no 401k) so $68K after that. Estimated federal tax is $10,592 [1], Another 6.2% goes to Social security so $4,340 [2], estimated state income tax (CA) is about $3,922 so rolling that up, $68K - $18,854 in taxes thats not quite $50K left over ($49,146) so that is about $4095 a month. So if you're living on $4095 a month you're looking at spending $2K on a studio apartment [4] minus the rental subsidy of $1k making it $1k on the Apartment. Call it $500/month on food, $250 / month on subscription services (cable / phone / internet) and maybe $75 /month on rental insurance so maybe half your monthly on recurring costs. Leaving you $2K/month for dynamic costs. If you don't own a car (and I wouldn't recommend it) then you're basically able to move what is left around for things like the occasional furniture or clothing purchase. Going out to eat occasionally and saving for a rainy day. It should be possible to put away $500/month of that into savings on typical month. The bottom line is I don't see $70K/month as 'pretty tough' :-) but I can certainly see it not giving you a luxurious lifestyle. [1] http://www.calcxml.com/calculators/federal-income-tax-estimator http://www.calcxml.com/calculators/federal-income-tax-estima... [2] https://www.socialsecurity.gov/OACT/COLA/cbb.html#Series https://www.socialsecurity.gov/OACT/COLA/cbb.html#Series [3] https://www.ftb.ca.gov/forms/2012_California_Tax_Rates_and_Exemptions.shtml https://www.ftb.ca.gov/forms/2012_California_Tax_Rates_and_E... [4] http://www.mynewplace.com/city/san-francisco-apartments-for-rent-california http://www.mynewplace.com/city/san-francisco-apartments-for-...
- peacemaker 14y ago
  Honestly, I missed the rent subsidy part which makes it a bit easier. Still, thanks for the breakdown! I guess I waste a lot of money or something because I somehow manage to spend a lot more here! Although saying that, I prefer to put a lot more away towards savings and retirement and like to travel a lot too.
  - ChuckMcM 14y ago
    This. Frictionless spending is your enemy. Oh that is a great book, click click click, $10 just whooshed out of your wallet into your kindle. There are so many good movies out this summer, blam blam blam another $50 - $60 GONE. Oh god I can't start my day without some caffiene pick up a vente latte half and half for me would you? Another $6 gone. It goes on and on. And it adds up.
nandemo 14y ago
OP also mentions $12k worth of rent subsidy. Not bad, I think. I believe there's an implicit "keep up with the Jones" factor here. Surely there are plenty of non-programmers living with less than $70k in San Francisco. In Japanese companies, you need to get to senior level (implying at least team lead but more likely project manager) to earn $70k a year. And it's not like Tokyo is a cheap place to live. I told a Japanese coworker that in the US new grads get U$70k right out of the school and he thought that was crazy.
- colmvp 14y ago
  Sometimes even more. I know of recent graduate engineers at some of the bigger giants (like Facebook, Google) who get large stock options, signing bonuses, and a six digit salary... right off the bat.
- crag 14y ago
  "rent subsidy"? Are you kidding? Man, I must be living in the wrong town. In Florida, the fact that we offer medical insurance and matching 401k sets us apart from most business here. Though we do have a few other perks.. you cell service is covered by the company. Also everyone gets an ipad (it's yours once you past 6 months). But really though, these "perks" help us (the company) more. But this just proves, bubbles exist.
  - ChuckMcM 14y ago
    "But this just proves, bubbles exist." No, it just proves that the market for tech talent is stronger in the Bay Area than it is for Florida.
    - enjo 14y ago
      I'd also imagine the average talent level is higher in the Bay (by quite a bit).
      - ChuckMcM 14y ago
        Surprisingly you would find this isn't necessarily true. The reasoning goes like this: Pool of available jobs is smaller, so the competition is fiercer, so the mediocre talent takes itself out of the game and all your are left with are the stars who don't want to move. I know lots of engineers in N. Carolina around the Research Triangle Park area who are way more talented than some folks in the Bay Area but they don't abide the culture that is Silicon Valley and so they don't move here.
louhong 14y ago
As someone else mentioned there was a $12k housing subsidy. Since she disclosed that she's engaged to the co-founder, and assuming they are living together, and assuming that he's getting a similar subsidy, they would have $2k a month which is doable for a 1 bedroom apartment. She's also got some expenses (food, internet, gym) taken care of so it is very possible.
mjn 14y ago
That's almost exactly the median household income for the city, so it's pretty normal to live in SF on that salary. Mostly among people not in tech or finance, though, so may depend on one's social circles (it's easier to live more cheaply if your friends aren't making six figures).

colmvp 14y ago

Honestly not that hard, especially if you live in a shared apartment. Plus if you look at his benefits, it looks like they cover some living, food, internet, and gym expenses. I grew up with friends who lived in NYC earning less than 35k a year with no such benefits. Now THAT was tough.

cellis 14y ago
NYC may have been high then, but it isn't near SF now. http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/nyc-cost-of-living-is-bad-try-living-in-sf http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/nyc-cost-of-living-is-...
- jwoah12 14y ago
  Everything I've seen has shown NYC is still slightly higher than SF. Do you have any sources other than this one guy's personal experience?
- colmvp 14y ago
  Even so, she is getting rent subsidy which rounds out to be $1,000 per month ($12,000 for the year). With that in mind, it's not hard to find a shared apartment for less than $2000 in SF/Oakland/Peninsula. Now if she wants her own 2BR or 1BR, sure she'll have to shell out more.
- usaar333 14y ago
  That guys' definition of acceptable area must be 3 blocks. I just hunted for a one bedroom place last month and was finding wonderful places for ~$2,200 to $2,300; that's the equivalent of a 2 bedroom just under $3,00. There is no way that San Francisco has higher rent than Manhattan: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/08/rent-manhattan-may-2012_n_1580945.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/08/rent-manhattan-may-... Those numbers blow away San Francisco.

bitcrusher 14y ago

I was thinking the same thing. The negotiation was interesting, but 70K in the city, even with a rent subsidy from the company is tough. Hopefully they don't have a lot of overhead beyond eating.

ChuckMcM 14y ago

Did you miss the rent subsidy part? It was listed at $12K, so $1K/month. But lets step back from that for a moment. $70K gross income. Lets say you put $2K into an IRA (no 401k) so $68K after that. Estimated federal tax is $10,592 [1], Another 6.2% goes to Social security so $4,340 [2], estimated state income tax (CA) is about $3,922 so rolling that up, $68K - $18,854 in taxes thats not quite $50K left over ($49,146) so that is about $4095 a month. So if you're living on $4095 a month you're looking at spending $2K on a studio apartment [4] minus the rental subsidy of $1k making it $1k on the Apartment. Call it $500/month on food, $250 / month on subscription services (cable / phone / internet) and maybe $75 /month on rental insurance so maybe half your monthly on recurring costs. Leaving you $2K/month for dynamic costs. If you don't own a car (and I wouldn't recommend it) then you're basically able to move what is left around for things like the occasional furniture or clothing purchase. Going out to eat occasionally and saving for a rainy day. It should be possible to put away $500/month of that into savings on typical month. The bottom line is I don't see $70K/month as 'pretty tough' :-) but I can certainly see it not giving you a luxurious lifestyle. [1] http://www.calcxml.com/calculators/federal-income-tax-estimator http://www.calcxml.com/calculators/federal-income-tax-estima... [2] https://www.socialsecurity.gov/OACT/COLA/cbb.html#Series https://www.socialsecurity.gov/OACT/COLA/cbb.html#Series [3] https://www.ftb.ca.gov/forms/2012_California_Tax_Rates_and_Exemptions.shtml https://www.ftb.ca.gov/forms/2012_California_Tax_Rates_and_E... [4] http://www.mynewplace.com/city/san-francisco-apartments-for-rent-california http://www.mynewplace.com/city/san-francisco-apartments-for-...

peacemaker 14y ago
Honestly, I missed the rent subsidy part which makes it a bit easier. Still, thanks for the breakdown! I guess I waste a lot of money or something because I somehow manage to spend a lot more here! Although saying that, I prefer to put a lot more away towards savings and retirement and like to travel a lot too.
- ChuckMcM 14y ago
  This. Frictionless spending is your enemy. Oh that is a great book, click click click, $10 just whooshed out of your wallet into your kindle. There are so many good movies out this summer, blam blam blam another $50 - $60 GONE. Oh god I can't start my day without some caffiene pick up a vente latte half and half for me would you? Another $6 gone. It goes on and on. And it adds up.

nandemo 14y ago

OP also mentions $12k worth of rent subsidy. Not bad, I think. I believe there's an implicit "keep up with the Jones" factor here. Surely there are plenty of non-programmers living with less than $70k in San Francisco. In Japanese companies, you need to get to senior level (implying at least team lead but more likely project manager) to earn $70k a year. And it's not like Tokyo is a cheap place to live. I told a Japanese coworker that in the US new grads get U$70k right out of the school and he thought that was crazy.

colmvp 14y ago
Sometimes even more. I know of recent graduate engineers at some of the bigger giants (like Facebook, Google) who get large stock options, signing bonuses, and a six digit salary... right off the bat.
crag 14y ago
"rent subsidy"? Are you kidding? Man, I must be living in the wrong town. In Florida, the fact that we offer medical insurance and matching 401k sets us apart from most business here. Though we do have a few other perks.. you cell service is covered by the company. Also everyone gets an ipad (it's yours once you past 6 months). But really though, these "perks" help us (the company) more. But this just proves, bubbles exist.
- ChuckMcM 14y ago
  "But this just proves, bubbles exist." No, it just proves that the market for tech talent is stronger in the Bay Area than it is for Florida.
  - enjo 14y ago
    I'd also imagine the average talent level is higher in the Bay (by quite a bit).
    - ChuckMcM 14y ago
      Surprisingly you would find this isn't necessarily true. The reasoning goes like this: Pool of available jobs is smaller, so the competition is fiercer, so the mediocre talent takes itself out of the game and all your are left with are the stars who don't want to move. I know lots of engineers in N. Carolina around the Research Triangle Park area who are way more talented than some folks in the Bay Area but they don't abide the culture that is Silicon Valley and so they don't move here.

louhong 14y ago

As someone else mentioned there was a $12k housing subsidy. Since she disclosed that she's engaged to the co-founder, and assuming they are living together, and assuming that he's getting a similar subsidy, they would have $2k a month which is doable for a 1 bedroom apartment. She's also got some expenses (food, internet, gym) taken care of so it is very possible.

mjn 14y ago

That's almost exactly the median household income for the city, so it's pretty normal to live in SF on that salary. Mostly among people not in tech or finance, though, so may depend on one's social circles (it's easier to live more cheaply if your friends aren't making six figures).