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> The men are there to meet each other, not to avoid women. Gender segregation isn't the point - it's about building relationships. I'm not sure that's quite t

> The men are there to meet each other, not to avoid women. Gender segregation isn't the point - it's about building relationships. I'm not sure that's quite true. Men tend to talk and joke in a different way to women, which they then modify around women or be punished. The main difference between an old-school Personnel department and a modern HR department is HR is (self-)tasked with making sure the environment is always suitable for women. Men have very few places, if any, where they can just be themselves, unmodified. And when those places exist, large shaming campaigns and marketing appear to tell them off and to entice women into them.

emptyfile 1y ago
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kgwxd 1y ago
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- potato3732842 1y ago
  Surely you see the irony in advocating for "just man up and comply"? Imagine how this comment would come across if applied along any other demographic axis.
  - meheleventyone 1y ago
    I can't imagine many other demographics saying they need a safe space to be offensive to the other axis.
    - blargey 1y ago
      Many men and women socialize differently in mono-gender groups, for a wide variety of reasons, and reducing that to “being offensive to the other axis” is…well, reductive flamebait.
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  That's the attitude that gets you in trouble with HR in corporate America.
nathan_compton 1y ago
No one is ever themselves, unmodified, when around other people. There are jokes and attitudes that are unacceptable in stereotypical masculine social situations too (having a feminine interest, for example, or simply speaking in the wrong way). The Overton Window moves. It narrows and widens. That isn't the same as being unable to be yourself. I agree that men should be socially allowed to have spaces where women are excluded and society does sort of tend to look down on that kind of thing, but I also think that in a world where many professional environments are still male dominated some sensitivity to the exclusion of women is warranted. I mean plenty of jobs out there are still 95% or more occupied by men only.
- belorn 1y ago
  Sweden has a government department for statistics and one data point they collect and publish is work statistics. The most gender segregated work places are dominated by women, with a few being around 99%. The only male dominated profession in top 5, last time I checked, was stonelayer, which was around 95%. In term of total gender segreation in the work force, about 15% of men and women work in gender equal profession. The majority, both men and women, work in a job where their gender outnumber the other gender by 2 to 1 or more. A common finding in studies conduced on this statistics is that gender segregation occurs also within a profession. Teachers is used as the typical example where gender segregation occur on both subject but also on level. It also get worse as people advance in their careers, with each "step" on the ladder being a point where the minority gender decrease.
- philipallstar 1y ago
  > No one is ever themselves, unmodified, when around other people I see what you mean. To clarify: I meant as a group, rather than as individuals. I appreciate there are smaller-groups that also can't be themselves somehow, but if that's a sin, then perhaps the larger group not being able to be itself is a larger sin.
geocar 1y ago
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emptyfile 1y ago

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kgwxd 1y ago

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potato3732842 1y ago
Surely you see the irony in advocating for "just man up and comply"? Imagine how this comment would come across if applied along any other demographic axis.
- meheleventyone 1y ago
  I can't imagine many other demographics saying they need a safe space to be offensive to the other axis.
  - blargey 1y ago
    Many men and women socialize differently in mono-gender groups, for a wide variety of reasons, and reducing that to “being offensive to the other axis” is…well, reductive flamebait.
FirmwareBurner 1y ago
That's the attitude that gets you in trouble with HR in corporate America.

nathan_compton 1y ago

No one is ever themselves, unmodified, when around other people. There are jokes and attitudes that are unacceptable in stereotypical masculine social situations too (having a feminine interest, for example, or simply speaking in the wrong way). The Overton Window moves. It narrows and widens. That isn't the same as being unable to be yourself. I agree that men should be socially allowed to have spaces where women are excluded and society does sort of tend to look down on that kind of thing, but I also think that in a world where many professional environments are still male dominated some sensitivity to the exclusion of women is warranted. I mean plenty of jobs out there are still 95% or more occupied by men only.

belorn 1y ago
Sweden has a government department for statistics and one data point they collect and publish is work statistics. The most gender segregated work places are dominated by women, with a few being around 99%. The only male dominated profession in top 5, last time I checked, was stonelayer, which was around 95%. In term of total gender segreation in the work force, about 15% of men and women work in gender equal profession. The majority, both men and women, work in a job where their gender outnumber the other gender by 2 to 1 or more. A common finding in studies conduced on this statistics is that gender segregation occurs also within a profession. Teachers is used as the typical example where gender segregation occur on both subject but also on level. It also get worse as people advance in their careers, with each "step" on the ladder being a point where the minority gender decrease.
philipallstar 1y ago
> No one is ever themselves, unmodified, when around other people I see what you mean. To clarify: I meant as a group, rather than as individuals. I appreciate there are smaller-groups that also can't be themselves somehow, but if that's a sin, then perhaps the larger group not being able to be itself is a larger sin.

geocar 1y ago

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