5 ms·

LLMs are a decent search engine a la Google circa 2005. It's been 20 years since that, so I think people have simply forgotten that a search engine can actuall

by bsder 1y ago

LLMs are a decent search engine a la Google circa 2005. It's been 20 years since that, so I think people have simply forgotten that a search engine can actually be useful as opposed to ad infested SEO sewage sludge. The problem is that the conversational interface, for some reason, seems to turn off the natural skepticism that people have when they use a search engine.

andrekandre 1y ago
> the conversational interface, for some reason, seems to turn off the natural skepticism that people have n=1 but after having chatgpt "lie" to me more than once i am very skeptical of it and always double check it, whereas something like tv or yt videos i still find myself being click-baited or grifted (iow less skeptical) much more easily still... any large studies about this would be very interesting...
- myvoiceismypass 1y ago
  I get irrationally frustrated when ChatGPT hallucinates npm packages / libraries that simply do not exist. This happens… weekly for me.
  - bdangubic 1y ago
    just ask it to write and publish them and you good :)
    - gessha 1y ago
      Jia Tan will have to work 24/7 :)
  - wvenable 1y ago
    Weird. I used to have that happen when it first came out but I haven't experienced anything like that in a long time. Worst case it's out of date rather than making stuff up.
  - protocolture 1y ago
    "Hey chatgpt I want to integrate a slidepot into this project" >from PiicoDev_SlidePot import PiicoDev_SlidePot Weird how these guys used exactly my terminology when they usually say "Potentiometer" Went and looked it up, found a resource outlining that it uses the same class as the dial potentiometer. "Hey chatgpt, I just looked it up and the slidepots actually use the same Potentiometer class as the dialpots." scurries to fix its stupid mistake
  - mhast 1y ago
    My experience with this is that it is vital to have a system where the system can iterate on its own. Ideally by having a test or endpoint you can call to actually run the code you want to build. Then you ask the system to implement the function and run the test. If it hallucinates anything it will find that and fix it. IME OpenAI is below Claude and Gemini for code.
  - floydnoel 1y ago
    tell it that you won’t accept any new installed packages, use language features only. i have that in my coding prompt i made.
AdieuToLogic 1y ago
> LLMs are a decent search engine a la Google circa 2005. Statistical text (token) generation made from an unknown (to the user) training data set is not the same as a keyword/faceted search of arbitrary content acquired from web crawlers. > The problem is that the conversational interface, for some reason, seems to turn off the natural skepticism that people have when they use a search engine. For me, my skepticism of using a statistical text generation algorithm as if it were a search engine is because a statistical text generation algorithm is not a search engine.
- wvenable 1y ago
  I almost never bother using Google anymore. When I search for something, I'm usually looking for an answer to question. Now I can just ask the question and get the answer without all the other stuff. I will often ask the LLM to give me web pages to look at it when I want to do further reading. As LLMs get better, I can't see myself going back to Google as it is or even as it was.
  - drob518 1y ago
    It’s only a matter of time before Google merges search with Gemini. I don’t think you’ll have to wait long.
    - codr7 1y ago
      Once search engines merge fully with AI, the Internet is over.
    - johnb231 1y ago
      Already happened. Google search includes an AI generated response. Gemini prompts return Google search results.
      - drob518 1y ago
        See. They saw my comment and got it done. Dang, that was quick.
pjmlp 1y ago
Except a search engine isn't voice controlled, and able to write code for me. Recently I did some tests with coding agents, and being able to translate a full application from AT&T Assembly into Intel Assembly compatible with NASM, in about half an hour of talking with agent, and having the end result actually working with minor tweeks isn't something a "decent search engine a la Google circa 2005." would ever been able to achieve. In the past I would have given such a task to a junior dev or intern, to keep them busy somehow, with a bit more tool maturity I have no reason to do it in the future. And this is the point many developers haven't yet grasped about their future in the job market.
- skydhash 1y ago
  > being able to translate a full application from AT&T Assembly into Intel Assembly compatible with NASM, [...] isn't something a "decent search engine a la Google circa 2005." would ever been able to achieve No you would have searched for "difference between at&t assembly and intel assembly", and if not found, the manuals for both and compiling the difference. Then write an awk or perl script to get it done. And if you happens to be good at both assembly versions and awk. I believe that could have been done in less than an hour. Or you could use some vim macros. > In the past I would have given such a task to a junior dev or intern, to keep them busy somehow, with a bit more tool maturity I have no reason to do it in the future. The reason to give tasks to junior is to get them to learn more. Or the task needs to be done, but it's not critical. Unless it takes less time to do it than to delegate it to someone else, or you have no junior to guide, it's a good reason to hand out the task to a junior if it will help them grow.
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    Except that awk or Perl script is something that would take me more than half an hour from idea to production. There might not exist a junior to give tasks to, if the amount of available juniors is decreased.

by bsder 1y ago

andrekandre 1y ago

> the conversational interface, for some reason, seems to turn off the natural skepticism that people have n=1 but after having chatgpt "lie" to me more than once i am very skeptical of it and always double check it, whereas something like tv or yt videos i still find myself being click-baited or grifted (iow less skeptical) much more easily still... any large studies about this would be very interesting...

myvoiceismypass 1y ago
I get irrationally frustrated when ChatGPT hallucinates npm packages / libraries that simply do not exist. This happens… weekly for me.
- bdangubic 1y ago
  just ask it to write and publish them and you good :)
  - gessha 1y ago
    Jia Tan will have to work 24/7 :)
- wvenable 1y ago
  Weird. I used to have that happen when it first came out but I haven't experienced anything like that in a long time. Worst case it's out of date rather than making stuff up.
- protocolture 1y ago
  "Hey chatgpt I want to integrate a slidepot into this project" >from PiicoDev_SlidePot import PiicoDev_SlidePot Weird how these guys used exactly my terminology when they usually say "Potentiometer" Went and looked it up, found a resource outlining that it uses the same class as the dial potentiometer. "Hey chatgpt, I just looked it up and the slidepots actually use the same Potentiometer class as the dialpots." scurries to fix its stupid mistake
- mhast 1y ago
  My experience with this is that it is vital to have a system where the system can iterate on its own. Ideally by having a test or endpoint you can call to actually run the code you want to build. Then you ask the system to implement the function and run the test. If it hallucinates anything it will find that and fix it. IME OpenAI is below Claude and Gemini for code.
- floydnoel 1y ago
  tell it that you won’t accept any new installed packages, use language features only. i have that in my coding prompt i made.

AdieuToLogic 1y ago

> LLMs are a decent search engine a la Google circa 2005. Statistical text (token) generation made from an unknown (to the user) training data set is not the same as a keyword/faceted search of arbitrary content acquired from web crawlers. > The problem is that the conversational interface, for some reason, seems to turn off the natural skepticism that people have when they use a search engine. For me, my skepticism of using a statistical text generation algorithm as if it were a search engine is because a statistical text generation algorithm is not a search engine.

wvenable 1y ago
I almost never bother using Google anymore. When I search for something, I'm usually looking for an answer to question. Now I can just ask the question and get the answer without all the other stuff. I will often ask the LLM to give me web pages to look at it when I want to do further reading. As LLMs get better, I can't see myself going back to Google as it is or even as it was.
- drob518 1y ago
  It’s only a matter of time before Google merges search with Gemini. I don’t think you’ll have to wait long.
  - codr7 1y ago
    Once search engines merge fully with AI, the Internet is over.
  - johnb231 1y ago
    Already happened. Google search includes an AI generated response. Gemini prompts return Google search results.
    - drob518 1y ago
      See. They saw my comment and got it done. Dang, that was quick.

pjmlp 1y ago

Except a search engine isn't voice controlled, and able to write code for me. Recently I did some tests with coding agents, and being able to translate a full application from AT&T Assembly into Intel Assembly compatible with NASM, in about half an hour of talking with agent, and having the end result actually working with minor tweeks isn't something a "decent search engine a la Google circa 2005." would ever been able to achieve. In the past I would have given such a task to a junior dev or intern, to keep them busy somehow, with a bit more tool maturity I have no reason to do it in the future. And this is the point many developers haven't yet grasped about their future in the job market.

skydhash 1y ago
> being able to translate a full application from AT&T Assembly into Intel Assembly compatible with NASM, [...] isn't something a "decent search engine a la Google circa 2005." would ever been able to achieve No you would have searched for "difference between at&t assembly and intel assembly", and if not found, the manuals for both and compiling the difference. Then write an awk or perl script to get it done. And if you happens to be good at both assembly versions and awk. I believe that could have been done in less than an hour. Or you could use some vim macros. > In the past I would have given such a task to a junior dev or intern, to keep them busy somehow, with a bit more tool maturity I have no reason to do it in the future. The reason to give tasks to junior is to get them to learn more. Or the task needs to be done, but it's not critical. Unless it takes less time to do it than to delegate it to someone else, or you have no junior to guide, it's a good reason to hand out the task to a junior if it will help them grow.
- pjmlp 1y ago
  Except that awk or Perl script is something that would take me more than half an hour from idea to production. There might not exist a junior to give tasks to, if the amount of available juniors is decreased.