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Are these discounts compared to prices before the change or did they raise the price for individual travelers?

SonOfLilit 1y ago
Are grocery store discounts for six packs compared to prices before the change or did they raise the price of single items? Here they don't even advertise it as a discount, so there's no ethical problem with raising the individual traveler price by x and lowering the family price by y so that the total profit remains the same.
- MentatOnMelange 1y ago
  There is absolutely an ethical problem with charging people different prices for the same exact product/service
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > There is absolutely an ethical problem with charging people different prices for the same exact product/service One, there isn’t. One party undercutting another for the same product is how competition generates consumer surplus. Two, it isn’t the same product. When I fly with my family, we check in together. We board together. I collect their docs on my phone and double check they have them on theirs. I turn down upgrades so I can sit with them. If there is a change, it takes one customer service agent maybe 10% longer to adjust everyone in bulk. I’m not incurring 4 or 5x the cost on the airline for 4 to 5x the revenue, this is why bulk discounting exists for everything. This isn’t an ethical problem. If it’s triggering an ethical system, that’s more damning for the system than for Delta. This is a communication and brand problem.
    - fireflash38 1y ago
      Mm, it feels unfair. I was trying to reason through why I think it's an ethical problem and that's what I've come up with. You're not treating people equally - whether it's in person bartering where you make assumptions about them based on snap judgements or via airlines seen here. There's an even bigger fairness issue when there's such a huge data knowledge gap between the parties, both knowing that there is this hidden price structure as well as knowing a ton about you. So there's privacy implications too. Edit: it's not undercutting. It's price discrimination. You know the thing people fucking hate when trying to buy a car. Half the reason people liked buying Tesla is cause the price is the price is the price.
      - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > It's price discrimination. You know the thing people fucking hate when trying to buy a car Transparent pricing worked as a positive differentiator for cars. (Saturn. Tesla.) I believe airlines have tried their hand at it. But it doesn’t budge the needle. If there is a single enduring truth to at least American airline demand, it’s that most consumers will pick the cheapest ticket. Almost nothing else matters, when it comes time to pay for it, to almost all of the flying public.
        valleyer 1y ago
        > If there is a single enduring truth to at least American airline demand, it’s that most consumers will pick the cheapest ticket. Almost nothing else matters, when it comes time to pay for it, to almost all of the flying public. Perhaps that's because all the U.S. airlines have engaged in such a race to the bottom on quality that there's no other distinguishing factor. I'd happily pay more for a more pleasant experience, but no one offers it.
        ghaff 1y ago
        They do. But it's a big premium. Which I might pay for especially long haul international but I probably won't for a domestic flight.
        JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > it's a big premium. Which I might pay for especially long haul international but I probably won't for a domestic flight Sure. That’s the point. So the market rewards the carriers who can cut prices lowest. What I would be curious about here is whether this single/double discrimination extends to Delta’s loyal customers. (My hunch is no.)
        JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > Perhaps that's because all the U.S. airlines have engaged in such a race to the bottom on quality Nope. The rule is proven by the exception. When carriers and new entrants have tried to disprove it, it’s generally proved true. > I'd happily pay more for a more pleasant experience, but no one offers it Between premium seats and private charter it absolutely exists. Most people can’t or won’t pay it, however, because it’s not worth that much to them.
krick 1y ago
There hardly is such thing as "discounts" in airline pricing. I mean, formally, there is, there's a lot of them, but, well, it's complicated… In all honesty all this thread is people complaining about something they don't have a clue about. Airline pricing is insanely complicated, and this is for a reason. Airlines are not a luxury business, they barely manage to survive. If not all this dynamic pricing, special contracts with agencies, etc, they'd have to charge so much for a seat that you wouldn't pay and all this travel industry you are accustomed to simply wouldn't exist. The whole business is built on making somebody who crucially needs to fly pay as much, as he can, and then to make price attractive enough for the rest of us so that you can sell the rest of the tickets, so that flight can make any profit. And in the end, margins are super thin in this business. Also, your question implies that you imagine that there is some simple enough "true price for a seat", which is so far from the truth, you have no idea. If you actually look at the price breakdown for a given ticket, there are literally dozens of components in it. It's not unusual that so called "fare" of a ticket (which is, like, "just price") may be literally $1, and the rest of $300 is various taxes, surcharges and payoffs I won't even try to start to explain here. I mean, really, people here truly have no idea what they are complaining about. Airline pricing is not a thing you should hate.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- alborzb 1y ago
  >> In all honesty all this thread is people complaining about something they don't have a clue about. Considering that I saw the same uproar on 4 major travel blogs: Thrifty Traveller (who originally reported this), One Mile at a time, Enilria and View from the Wing. I'd hardly call it people complaining about something they don't have a clue about. This pricing practice of charging more for solo travellers is new, deceptive and even travel bloggers who are thought leaders are upset by this.

Are grocery store discounts for six packs compared to prices before the change or did they raise the price of single items? Here they don't even advertise it as a discount, so there's no ethical problem with raising the individual traveler price by x and lowering the family price by y so that the total profit remains the same.

MentatOnMelange 1y ago
There is absolutely an ethical problem with charging people different prices for the same exact product/service
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > There is absolutely an ethical problem with charging people different prices for the same exact product/service One, there isn’t. One party undercutting another for the same product is how competition generates consumer surplus. Two, it isn’t the same product. When I fly with my family, we check in together. We board together. I collect their docs on my phone and double check they have them on theirs. I turn down upgrades so I can sit with them. If there is a change, it takes one customer service agent maybe 10% longer to adjust everyone in bulk. I’m not incurring 4 or 5x the cost on the airline for 4 to 5x the revenue, this is why bulk discounting exists for everything. This isn’t an ethical problem. If it’s triggering an ethical system, that’s more damning for the system than for Delta. This is a communication and brand problem.
  - fireflash38 1y ago
    Mm, it feels unfair. I was trying to reason through why I think it's an ethical problem and that's what I've come up with. You're not treating people equally - whether it's in person bartering where you make assumptions about them based on snap judgements or via airlines seen here. There's an even bigger fairness issue when there's such a huge data knowledge gap between the parties, both knowing that there is this hidden price structure as well as knowing a ton about you. So there's privacy implications too. Edit: it's not undercutting. It's price discrimination. You know the thing people fucking hate when trying to buy a car. Half the reason people liked buying Tesla is cause the price is the price is the price.
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      > It's price discrimination. You know the thing people fucking hate when trying to buy a car Transparent pricing worked as a positive differentiator for cars. (Saturn. Tesla.) I believe airlines have tried their hand at it. But it doesn’t budge the needle. If there is a single enduring truth to at least American airline demand, it’s that most consumers will pick the cheapest ticket. Almost nothing else matters, when it comes time to pay for it, to almost all of the flying public.
      - valleyer 1y ago
        > If there is a single enduring truth to at least American airline demand, it’s that most consumers will pick the cheapest ticket. Almost nothing else matters, when it comes time to pay for it, to almost all of the flying public. Perhaps that's because all the U.S. airlines have engaged in such a race to the bottom on quality that there's no other distinguishing factor. I'd happily pay more for a more pleasant experience, but no one offers it.
        ghaff 1y ago
        They do. But it's a big premium. Which I might pay for especially long haul international but I probably won't for a domestic flight.
        JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > it's a big premium. Which I might pay for especially long haul international but I probably won't for a domestic flight Sure. That’s the point. So the market rewards the carriers who can cut prices lowest. What I would be curious about here is whether this single/double discrimination extends to Delta’s loyal customers. (My hunch is no.)
        JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > Perhaps that's because all the U.S. airlines have engaged in such a race to the bottom on quality Nope. The rule is proven by the exception. When carriers and new entrants have tried to disprove it, it’s generally proved true. > I'd happily pay more for a more pleasant experience, but no one offers it Between premium seats and private charter it absolutely exists. Most people can’t or won’t pay it, however, because it’s not worth that much to them.

krick 1y ago

There hardly is such thing as "discounts" in airline pricing. I mean, formally, there is, there's a lot of them, but, well, it's complicated… In all honesty all this thread is people complaining about something they don't have a clue about. Airline pricing is insanely complicated, and this is for a reason. Airlines are not a luxury business, they barely manage to survive. If not all this dynamic pricing, special contracts with agencies, etc, they'd have to charge so much for a seat that you wouldn't pay and all this travel industry you are accustomed to simply wouldn't exist. The whole business is built on making somebody who crucially needs to fly pay as much, as he can, and then to make price attractive enough for the rest of us so that you can sell the rest of the tickets, so that flight can make any profit. And in the end, margins are super thin in this business. Also, your question implies that you imagine that there is some simple enough "true price for a seat", which is so far from the truth, you have no idea. If you actually look at the price breakdown for a given ticket, there are literally dozens of components in it. It's not unusual that so called "fare" of a ticket (which is, like, "just price") may be literally $1, and the rest of $300 is various taxes, surcharges and payoffs I won't even try to start to explain here. I mean, really, people here truly have no idea what they are complaining about. Airline pricing is not a thing you should hate.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
alborzb 1y ago
>> In all honesty all this thread is people complaining about something they don't have a clue about. Considering that I saw the same uproar on 4 major travel blogs: Thrifty Traveller (who originally reported this), One Mile at a time, Enilria and View from the Wing. I'd hardly call it people complaining about something they don't have a clue about. This pricing practice of charging more for solo travellers is new, deceptive and even travel bloggers who are thought leaders are upset by this.