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It's far from simple. There is no clear delineation between food and non-food offered by saying Doritos are a science experiment. Is an ear of corn real food? I

by aggie 1y ago

It's far from simple. There is no clear delineation between food and non-food offered by saying Doritos are a science experiment. Is an ear of corn real food? It has of course been significantly modified by selective breeding. And your grandma ate GMO corn.

neuralRiot 1y ago
Actually it is really simple, there’s no “doritos plant” corn is turned into cornmeal, dried, mixed with oils, salt, then fried in more oil then sprinkled in chemical flavorings and more salt. Roast some corn cobs and that’s real food.
- badc0ffee 1y ago
  Someone better tell the Mexicans about tostadas not being food
  - neuralRiot 1y ago
    40% of Mexico population is over the obesity level.
- saghm 1y ago
  At what point in the process does it stop being food? Is cornmeal with oil and salt still food, even though there's not a "cornmeal with oil and salt" plant? I think the point of the parent comment is that it's not clear that there's a single place to draw the line between "food" and "not food" in a way that everyone will immediately agree on.
  - neuralRiot 1y ago
    Of course, if you’ll go to the semantic approach then anything edible would be “food”, foods are no simply “good” or “bad”, they’re “better than…” “worst than…” As a side observation and not particularly referring to your reply, I see that people tend to put food or nutrition if you want, almost in the same scope of politics and religion, many people I know who I consider very open-minded will get very on the defensive whenever I tell them that the best thing to do is to reduce the intake of proteins of animal origin and increase plant consumption. That goes to show that years of propaganda have worked very well.
    - saghm 1y ago
      Okay, but what's the alternative to the "semantic approach"? People keep alluding to it in this thread, but no one seems to actually be explaining it. I'd argue that the main part of the confusion here is that people don't seem to agree on what "food" means, and I'll personally admit that I don't have any confidence in my ability to define it in a clear way that would satisfy most people here. I don't have any particular strong feelings against what you're saying about animal proteins and plant consumption (despite knowing that I fall far short of what anyone on either side of that argument would consider a healthy diet), but that's because it's at least clear to me what you're arguing. The issue to me is that saying something edible is "food" or "not food" implies a binary that's really hard for me to wrap my head around, and it really doesn't seem like anyone is willing to define that in a way that I can understand; as soon as I try to ask questions to understand, it feels to me like the people using this stricter definition of "food" are the ones who get defensive. I want to keep an open mind, since I'm well aware of my lack of knowledge when it comes to nutrition, but it's hard not to feel confused when someone argues that there's a strict boundary where processing something makes it no longer food, but no one seems to be willing to elaborate on what it is. From my perspective, it seems like some people might have a more nuanced understanding of what they consider food, but because it's inconsistent with the previous idea I had of what "food" is, I don't have any way of understanding what their understanding is. If there are people treating nutrition the same way as politics and religion, it's the ones who make bold claims without further explanation and reject any disagreement as the result of illogical forces.
      - testing22321 1y ago
        Have you read Michael Pollen’s books? It’s actually trivially simple to define what is food, and what you should be eating. Every vegetable and fruit on the planet. Grains, rice, nuts. Chicken , meat, seafood, etc Put simply: it grows. This is what all mammals have been eating for hundreds of thousands of years. We know it works. They have one ingredient. They have existed for at least as long as humans. Then it is trivially simple to define what is not good, and no mammal should ever consume. (But realistically we will just minimize as much as possible). Coke. Fairy floss. MSG. HFCS. These things were grown in a lab. They have very minimal nutrition value, and often a host of negatives. They have only been concocted in the last century, and a massive number of severe health problems have come along with them. These things have many ingredients. They did not exist 100 years ago. Then there is an enormous grey zone in the middle that people will argue about till the end of time. It’s not worth your time. Just eat what is clearly food and pretend the rest doesn’t exist. The fact twizzlers and KFC exist have no impact on my life, and I am much healthier for it.
  - worik 1y ago
    > At what point in the process does it stop being food? Just because you cannot see a clearly defined boundary does not mean it is not there. A corn cob is food, a processed piece of corn mixed with <insert flavoursome/colourful/preserving chemical> sealed in a plastic bag with a six month shelf life is not
    - saghm 1y ago
      What you're saying sounds reasonable, but it completely avoids the question I asked about what point in the process it stopped being food by only mentioning the first and last steps. I'd argue that in order for a boundary to be clear, there needs to be specific step in the discrete process where the output of that step isn't considered food anymore. I honestly can't tell if you're saying that I personally can't see the boundary but you are able to, or if you're using "you" generically when you say "you cannot see", but if you mean the former, I don't think it's particularly helpful to assert that you know what it is without explaining further, and if you mean the latter, I don't think I agree with you on what constitutes a boundary being "clear".
testing22321 1y ago
It’s extremely simple. Only buy things with one ingredient. There, now you’re not eating the science experiment.
- rcxdude 1y ago
  You're just doing the science experiment yourself when you cook it? Your view is simple, just wrong.
  - testing22321 1y ago
    No, I’m eating what mammals have been eating for a few hundred thousand years, not what a single one of them concocted in a lab in the last 50 years, which has lead to skyrocketing illnesses that basically didn’t exist before. Diabetes, heart disease, hypertension and on and on.

by aggie 1y ago

neuralRiot 1y ago

Actually it is really simple, there’s no “doritos plant” corn is turned into cornmeal, dried, mixed with oils, salt, then fried in more oil then sprinkled in chemical flavorings and more salt. Roast some corn cobs and that’s real food.

badc0ffee 1y ago
Someone better tell the Mexicans about tostadas not being food
- neuralRiot 1y ago
  40% of Mexico population is over the obesity level.
saghm 1y ago
At what point in the process does it stop being food? Is cornmeal with oil and salt still food, even though there's not a "cornmeal with oil and salt" plant? I think the point of the parent comment is that it's not clear that there's a single place to draw the line between "food" and "not food" in a way that everyone will immediately agree on.
- neuralRiot 1y ago
  Of course, if you’ll go to the semantic approach then anything edible would be “food”, foods are no simply “good” or “bad”, they’re “better than…” “worst than…” As a side observation and not particularly referring to your reply, I see that people tend to put food or nutrition if you want, almost in the same scope of politics and religion, many people I know who I consider very open-minded will get very on the defensive whenever I tell them that the best thing to do is to reduce the intake of proteins of animal origin and increase plant consumption. That goes to show that years of propaganda have worked very well.
  - saghm 1y ago
    Okay, but what's the alternative to the "semantic approach"? People keep alluding to it in this thread, but no one seems to actually be explaining it. I'd argue that the main part of the confusion here is that people don't seem to agree on what "food" means, and I'll personally admit that I don't have any confidence in my ability to define it in a clear way that would satisfy most people here. I don't have any particular strong feelings against what you're saying about animal proteins and plant consumption (despite knowing that I fall far short of what anyone on either side of that argument would consider a healthy diet), but that's because it's at least clear to me what you're arguing. The issue to me is that saying something edible is "food" or "not food" implies a binary that's really hard for me to wrap my head around, and it really doesn't seem like anyone is willing to define that in a way that I can understand; as soon as I try to ask questions to understand, it feels to me like the people using this stricter definition of "food" are the ones who get defensive. I want to keep an open mind, since I'm well aware of my lack of knowledge when it comes to nutrition, but it's hard not to feel confused when someone argues that there's a strict boundary where processing something makes it no longer food, but no one seems to be willing to elaborate on what it is. From my perspective, it seems like some people might have a more nuanced understanding of what they consider food, but because it's inconsistent with the previous idea I had of what "food" is, I don't have any way of understanding what their understanding is. If there are people treating nutrition the same way as politics and religion, it's the ones who make bold claims without further explanation and reject any disagreement as the result of illogical forces.
    - testing22321 1y ago
      Have you read Michael Pollen’s books? It’s actually trivially simple to define what is food, and what you should be eating. Every vegetable and fruit on the planet. Grains, rice, nuts. Chicken , meat, seafood, etc Put simply: it grows. This is what all mammals have been eating for hundreds of thousands of years. We know it works. They have one ingredient. They have existed for at least as long as humans. Then it is trivially simple to define what is not good, and no mammal should ever consume. (But realistically we will just minimize as much as possible). Coke. Fairy floss. MSG. HFCS. These things were grown in a lab. They have very minimal nutrition value, and often a host of negatives. They have only been concocted in the last century, and a massive number of severe health problems have come along with them. These things have many ingredients. They did not exist 100 years ago. Then there is an enormous grey zone in the middle that people will argue about till the end of time. It’s not worth your time. Just eat what is clearly food and pretend the rest doesn’t exist. The fact twizzlers and KFC exist have no impact on my life, and I am much healthier for it.
- worik 1y ago
  > At what point in the process does it stop being food? Just because you cannot see a clearly defined boundary does not mean it is not there. A corn cob is food, a processed piece of corn mixed with <insert flavoursome/colourful/preserving chemical> sealed in a plastic bag with a six month shelf life is not
  - saghm 1y ago
    What you're saying sounds reasonable, but it completely avoids the question I asked about what point in the process it stopped being food by only mentioning the first and last steps. I'd argue that in order for a boundary to be clear, there needs to be specific step in the discrete process where the output of that step isn't considered food anymore. I honestly can't tell if you're saying that I personally can't see the boundary but you are able to, or if you're using "you" generically when you say "you cannot see", but if you mean the former, I don't think it's particularly helpful to assert that you know what it is without explaining further, and if you mean the latter, I don't think I agree with you on what constitutes a boundary being "clear".

testing22321 1y ago

It’s extremely simple. Only buy things with one ingredient. There, now you’re not eating the science experiment.

rcxdude 1y ago
You're just doing the science experiment yourself when you cook it? Your view is simple, just wrong.
- testing22321 1y ago
  No, I’m eating what mammals have been eating for a few hundred thousand years, not what a single one of them concocted in a lab in the last 50 years, which has lead to skyrocketing illnesses that basically didn’t exist before. Diabetes, heart disease, hypertension and on and on.