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LLM's do no software engineering at all, and that can be fine. Because you don't actually need software engineering to create successful programs. Some applicat

by devjab 1y ago

LLM's do no software engineering at all, and that can be fine. Because you don't actually need software engineering to create successful programs. Some applications will not even need software engineering for their entire life cycles because nobody is really paying attention to efficiency in the ocean of poor cloud management anyway. I actually imagine it's the opposite of what you say here. I think technically inclined "IT business partners" will be able of creating applications entirely without software engineers... Because I see that happen every day in the world of green energy. The issues come later, when things have to be maintained, scale or become efficient. This is where the software engineering comes in, because it actually matters if you used a list or a generator in your Python app when it iterates over millions of items and not just a few hundreds.

AstroBen 1y ago
That's the thing too right.. the vast majority of software out there barely needs to scale or be super efficient It does need to be reliable, though. LLMs have proven very bad at that
- devjab 1y ago
  > the vast majority of software out there barely needs to scale or be super efficient That was the way I saw it for a while. In recent months I've begun to wonder if I need to reevaluate that, because it's become clear to me that scaling doesn't actually start from zero. By zero I mean that I was naive enough to think that all programs, even the most googled programmed one by a completely new junior would at least have, some, efficiency... but some of these LLM services I get to work on today are so bad they didn't start at zero but at some negative number. It would have been less of an issue if our non-developer-developers didn't use Python (or at least used Python with ruff/pyrefly/whateveryoulike, but some of the things they write can't even scale to do minimal BI reporting.
- km144 1y ago
  Maybe automated testing of all forms will just become much more ubiquitous as a safeguard against the worst of AI hallucinations? I feel that would solve a lot of people's worries about LLMs. I'm imagining a world where a software developer is a person who gathers requirements, writes some tests, asks the AI to modify the codebase, ensures the tests still work, makes sure they are a human who understands the change the AI just made, and continues with the next requirement.

by devjab 1y ago

AstroBen 1y ago

That's the thing too right.. the vast majority of software out there barely needs to scale or be super efficient It does need to be reliable, though. LLMs have proven very bad at that

devjab 1y ago
> the vast majority of software out there barely needs to scale or be super efficient That was the way I saw it for a while. In recent months I've begun to wonder if I need to reevaluate that, because it's become clear to me that scaling doesn't actually start from zero. By zero I mean that I was naive enough to think that all programs, even the most googled programmed one by a completely new junior would at least have, some, efficiency... but some of these LLM services I get to work on today are so bad they didn't start at zero but at some negative number. It would have been less of an issue if our non-developer-developers didn't use Python (or at least used Python with ruff/pyrefly/whateveryoulike, but some of the things they write can't even scale to do minimal BI reporting.
km144 1y ago
Maybe automated testing of all forms will just become much more ubiquitous as a safeguard against the worst of AI hallucinations? I feel that would solve a lot of people's worries about LLMs. I'm imagining a world where a software developer is a person who gathers requirements, writes some tests, asks the AI to modify the codebase, ensures the tests still work, makes sure they are a human who understands the change the AI just made, and continues with the next requirement.