3 ms·

I'm still waiting for the solar-powered lithium mining trucks... Until then, solar panels are just stored fossil fuels.

toomuchtodo 1y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44101287 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44101287 (comment with citations on China being the first electrostate, how much energy is produced from low carbon sources) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44057045 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44057045 (comment with citations on automated, electrical heavy haul vehicles in China) Reminder to think in systems. Low carbon generation keeps pushing fossil generation out. Electric vehicles keep pushing combustion vehicles out. We’re still 10-15 years away still, but trajectories are clear.
- vdupras 1y ago
  And yet, despite all these pushes, fossil fuel consumption has yet to show signs of ever going down. In relative terms? sure, but in absolute, we're still burning more dead dinosaurs than ever. EDIT: but I've got to say, I didn't know about those electric mining trucks. Those are pretty cool.
  - jf22 1y ago
    Can you share more about the "has yet to show signs of ever going down?" I'm not trying to say "source!" and make you prove anything. I'm genuinely interested. All the stats I'm aware of show fossil fuel usage going down but I'm sure there is more context to the data I'm missing.
    - vdupras 1y ago
      I don't remember my exact source, and I admit that the situation might have changed in the last year, but here's what a quick "global energy usage over time by type" google search yielded: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/global-primary-energy https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/global-primary-energy
    - perrygeo 1y ago
      > All the stats I'm aware of show fossil fuel usage going down but I'm sure there is more context to the data I'm missing. The research you're thinking about shows that fossil fuel usage is declining as a percentage of overall energy use. That much is true. Solar is making progress relative to coal, oil, and gas. But don't confuse the derivative of the relative difference with the scalar value of interest. Measured in physical units, fossil fuel consumption keeps increasing, as the IEA reports constantly.
      - jf22 1y ago
        That's perfect thanks.
  - Tepix 1y ago
    I think coal consumption has plateaued and we‘ll finally see it coming down in a year or two. Oil and gas will need a couple more years, current US policies will cause an unnecessary delay.
perrygeo 1y ago
And the manufacturing. And transport, installation, maintenance. There is no part of the "renewables" supply chain that has ever been free of fossil fuels. Curious how we hope to repair solar panels wind turbines and hydroelectric dams without fossil fuels.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44101287 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44101287 (comment with citations on China being the first electrostate, how much energy is produced from low carbon sources) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44057045 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44057045 (comment with citations on automated, electrical heavy haul vehicles in China) Reminder to think in systems. Low carbon generation keeps pushing fossil generation out. Electric vehicles keep pushing combustion vehicles out. We’re still 10-15 years away still, but trajectories are clear.

vdupras 1y ago
And yet, despite all these pushes, fossil fuel consumption has yet to show signs of ever going down. In relative terms? sure, but in absolute, we're still burning more dead dinosaurs than ever. EDIT: but I've got to say, I didn't know about those electric mining trucks. Those are pretty cool.
- jf22 1y ago
  Can you share more about the "has yet to show signs of ever going down?" I'm not trying to say "source!" and make you prove anything. I'm genuinely interested. All the stats I'm aware of show fossil fuel usage going down but I'm sure there is more context to the data I'm missing.
  - vdupras 1y ago
    I don't remember my exact source, and I admit that the situation might have changed in the last year, but here's what a quick "global energy usage over time by type" google search yielded: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/global-primary-energy https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/global-primary-energy
  - perrygeo 1y ago
    > All the stats I'm aware of show fossil fuel usage going down but I'm sure there is more context to the data I'm missing. The research you're thinking about shows that fossil fuel usage is declining as a percentage of overall energy use. That much is true. Solar is making progress relative to coal, oil, and gas. But don't confuse the derivative of the relative difference with the scalar value of interest. Measured in physical units, fossil fuel consumption keeps increasing, as the IEA reports constantly.
    - jf22 1y ago
      That's perfect thanks.
- Tepix 1y ago
  I think coal consumption has plateaued and we‘ll finally see it coming down in a year or two. Oil and gas will need a couple more years, current US policies will cause an unnecessary delay.

perrygeo 1y ago

And the manufacturing. And transport, installation, maintenance. There is no part of the "renewables" supply chain that has ever been free of fossil fuels. Curious how we hope to repair solar panels wind turbines and hydroelectric dams without fossil fuels.