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> There's a theory that the eye of the needle was a narrow gate in Jerusalem's city wall This is a very debunked myth, brought to you by people who are despera

> There's a theory that the eye of the needle was a narrow gate in Jerusalem's city wall This is a very debunked myth, brought to you by people who are desperate to avoid Christianity's clear proscription on hoarding wealth.

lazide 1y ago
Can you imagine how many indulgences a billion dollars could buy? Hey, enough billions and you might even be able to buy your own gospel!
- hinkley 1y ago
  Emperor Constantine has entered the chat. King James has entered the chat. Henry VIII has entered the chat.
lo_zamoyski 1y ago
To be clear, it isn’t wealth per se that is taught is evil, but attachment to it and pining for it. The prosperity gospel demonstrates this perverse and unhealthy lust for riches. Many don’t pay attention to the fuller context. And Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly, I say to you, only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?” But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” The rich only make up a very small percentage of any society, so why would the disciples ask “Who then can be saved?”. They ask, because it isn’t wealth per se, but attachment and greed. The poor and modest in possessions, who made up most of Christ’s disciples, were vulnerable to the very same vice. Experience confirms this. Look at the aspirations of the poor in our societies. They are often vulgar, base, and materialistic.
- mullingitover 1y ago
  It's clear that that proper practice for a wealthy person would be to immediately jettison the wealth. Matt 19:21 NIV: "Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” So if you're wealthy and poor people exist, you're in a state of sin. Christianity is an apocalyptic religion, you're to assume the world could end tomorrow so your instructions aren't to simply not want the money, it's to get rid of it and donate it all to charity immediately.
  - Amezarak 1y ago
    The story in Matthew 19:21 has exactly the same point and precedes this very parable. > But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. [Then follows the camel and the needle.] The rich man fails the test because he is unable to give up his wealth; his heart is not in the right place. He loves the world and he loves his riches more than he loves God. It is entirely possible to have your heart in the right place and be rich, as demonstrated by several other examples. Another example is in Acts, where Peter kills a man and his wife because they lie about how much money they're giving - they were perfectly free, and would have been saved, even had they withheld their money from the commons. Paul also says there are not many rich men that are Christians - but there are some. The attitude that "ahah, you didn't give your money to the poor, so you're not a REAL Christian doing what you're supposed to do" is put into the mouth of a figure in the Bible. That figure is Judas. > Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment. > 4Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him, > 5Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor? Jesus, and the other apostles, are not saying that you can't be rich. They're saying you cannot love money more than God, and even trusting in money is ultimately a foolish endeavor because your life and prosperity are in God's hands. If you are snidely arguing that people aren't Christians or following God simply because they haven't given all their money to the poor, you are falling into the same error as Judas, and the same general category of error as the Pharisees.
    - 1y ago
- hinkley 1y ago
  Gambling is pining for wealth.
  - mullingitover 1y ago
    Gambling is humanity's way of enacting a tax on hope.
    - hinkley 1y ago
      Usually that’s, “a tax on people bad at math.” If I put an effort into not being cynical, I would say public funds spent on R&D are the more accurate tax on hope. We are collecting money for Progress and Progress will save us from today’s inescapable facts. We hope it will not replace them with something worse.
      - mullingitover 1y ago
        I mean, if the stance is "Progress is bad, actually," then yes obviously government funding of basic research is really bad. If your stance is "ROI is bad, too" then absolutely, government funding of research is boneheaded.
      - swores 1y ago
        I disagree, the vast majority of people I've known who gamble understand perfectly well that the odds are against them, they're not choosing to do it because they wrongly believe the EV to be positive. In some cases it's because the enjoyment they get is worth losing money (and/or they wrongly believe it will be), in some cases it's because even though buying weekly lottery tickets is extremely unlikely to be worth it, the tiny possibility of winning big on it is the only way they could possibly become a millionaire and they want to fantasise that it might still happen. And the ones who are gambling in the belief that the odds are in their favour, it's not because of their maths, it's because they believe (rightly or wrongly) that their knowledge / opinions on a particular sport are good enough to beat the bookies. Sure there are also people who think things like "my roulette strategy is bound to work", but it's a tiny proportion.
- o11c 1y ago
  And even fuller context: for the rich to enter is "hard" (with comparisons), but someone who is not like a child "shall not enter" (no exceptions). (previous chapter in Matthew, earlier in the same chapter in Mark/Luke)

lazide 1y ago

Can you imagine how many indulgences a billion dollars could buy? Hey, enough billions and you might even be able to buy your own gospel!

hinkley 1y ago
Emperor Constantine has entered the chat. King James has entered the chat. Henry VIII has entered the chat.

lo_zamoyski 1y ago

To be clear, it isn’t wealth per se that is taught is evil, but attachment to it and pining for it. The prosperity gospel demonstrates this perverse and unhealthy lust for riches. Many don’t pay attention to the fuller context. And Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly, I say to you, only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?” But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” The rich only make up a very small percentage of any society, so why would the disciples ask “Who then can be saved?”. They ask, because it isn’t wealth per se, but attachment and greed. The poor and modest in possessions, who made up most of Christ’s disciples, were vulnerable to the very same vice. Experience confirms this. Look at the aspirations of the poor in our societies. They are often vulgar, base, and materialistic.

mullingitover 1y ago
It's clear that that proper practice for a wealthy person would be to immediately jettison the wealth. Matt 19:21 NIV: "Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” So if you're wealthy and poor people exist, you're in a state of sin. Christianity is an apocalyptic religion, you're to assume the world could end tomorrow so your instructions aren't to simply not want the money, it's to get rid of it and donate it all to charity immediately.
- Amezarak 1y ago
  The story in Matthew 19:21 has exactly the same point and precedes this very parable. > But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. [Then follows the camel and the needle.] The rich man fails the test because he is unable to give up his wealth; his heart is not in the right place. He loves the world and he loves his riches more than he loves God. It is entirely possible to have your heart in the right place and be rich, as demonstrated by several other examples. Another example is in Acts, where Peter kills a man and his wife because they lie about how much money they're giving - they were perfectly free, and would have been saved, even had they withheld their money from the commons. Paul also says there are not many rich men that are Christians - but there are some. The attitude that "ahah, you didn't give your money to the poor, so you're not a REAL Christian doing what you're supposed to do" is put into the mouth of a figure in the Bible. That figure is Judas. > Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment. > 4Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him, > 5Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor? Jesus, and the other apostles, are not saying that you can't be rich. They're saying you cannot love money more than God, and even trusting in money is ultimately a foolish endeavor because your life and prosperity are in God's hands. If you are snidely arguing that people aren't Christians or following God simply because they haven't given all their money to the poor, you are falling into the same error as Judas, and the same general category of error as the Pharisees.
  - 1y ago
hinkley 1y ago
Gambling is pining for wealth.
- mullingitover 1y ago
  Gambling is humanity's way of enacting a tax on hope.
  - hinkley 1y ago
    Usually that’s, “a tax on people bad at math.” If I put an effort into not being cynical, I would say public funds spent on R&D are the more accurate tax on hope. We are collecting money for Progress and Progress will save us from today’s inescapable facts. We hope it will not replace them with something worse.
    - mullingitover 1y ago
      I mean, if the stance is "Progress is bad, actually," then yes obviously government funding of basic research is really bad. If your stance is "ROI is bad, too" then absolutely, government funding of research is boneheaded.
    - swores 1y ago
      I disagree, the vast majority of people I've known who gamble understand perfectly well that the odds are against them, they're not choosing to do it because they wrongly believe the EV to be positive. In some cases it's because the enjoyment they get is worth losing money (and/or they wrongly believe it will be), in some cases it's because even though buying weekly lottery tickets is extremely unlikely to be worth it, the tiny possibility of winning big on it is the only way they could possibly become a millionaire and they want to fantasise that it might still happen. And the ones who are gambling in the belief that the odds are in their favour, it's not because of their maths, it's because they believe (rightly or wrongly) that their knowledge / opinions on a particular sport are good enough to beat the bookies. Sure there are also people who think things like "my roulette strategy is bound to work", but it's a tiny proportion.
o11c 1y ago
And even fuller context: for the rich to enter is "hard" (with comparisons), but someone who is not like a child "shall not enter" (no exceptions). (previous chapter in Matthew, earlier in the same chapter in Mark/Luke)