4 ms·

I know plenty of programmers without degrees, I was extremely surprised some of them didn't because they were so bloody good! The thing is with having an IT deg

by kamjam 14y ago

I know plenty of programmers without degrees, I was extremely surprised some of them didn't because they were so bloody good! The thing is with having an IT degree, this industry moves so quick how much of what you learnt is still relevant (aside from the OO and SQL)... You have to be CONSTANTLY re-learning new tech otherwise you're not going to be a very good/relevant programmer for long!

gizzlon 14y ago
Obviously you can't stop learning, but the thing is that by obtaining an IT degree you'll often learn fundamental things you wouldn't learn otherwise.
- mattdeboard 14y ago
  You're projecting. I have no degree. I've taken the time to teach myself the fundamentals. Dueling anecdotes here obviously but we all know plenty of people with CS degrees who are worthless when it comes to tackling a problem, and plenty of people without who are credits to their profession. Programmers program. If someone programs, they're a programmer. My daughter uses scratch to write software. She's 8, the software is not sophisticated but it's software. She's a programmer.
  - reinhardt 14y ago
    This sounds as serious as claiming your daughter is a civil engineer because she builds LEGO buildings or she's a biologist because she knows to feed her goldfish. At the end of the day we need some terminology that distinguishes the guy that took a semester to learn MS Access from the one that took 4 years to study CS in university. It's an unfortunate common theme in HN but I can't think off the top of my head other white collar professions with such contempt for degrees and formal education. Are all the other fields doing it wrong or is programming so much easier than everything else that justifies the constant pat on the back for roll-you-own education?
    - kamjam 14y ago
      But I've met plenty of people who come out of uni with a CS degree and don't know squat. I totally get the distinction, and there needs to be a distinction between someone playing around, someone who is a junior and someone who is truly brilliant. But it doesn't require a degree to reach that top level. I only took some CS modules at uni, I learnt everything I know either on the job or off my own back, including OOP, JavaScript/OOJS, advanced HTML and CSS. They didn't teach you the difference between browsers either (I started back in IE4/Netscape days). What this guys daughter decides that at 18 years old (and now having programmed for 10 years) it's not worth going to uni because a) it'll cost too much and b) might as well get a 4 year head start over everyone else. So by that time she'll have 14 years experience. I think that would count for a hell of a lot more than a formal education. There's nothing magical about programming that a google search will not reveal.
    - mattdeboard 14y ago
      I'm almost afraid to tell you this given how important the title "programmer" seems to be to you... but the barrier to a stable, enjoyable, productive and well-paid career as a programmer is very, very, very low. Much lower than any other science or engineering field that I can think of.

by kamjam 14y ago

gizzlon 14y ago

Obviously you can't stop learning, but the thing is that by obtaining an IT degree you'll often learn fundamental things you wouldn't learn otherwise.

mattdeboard 14y ago
You're projecting. I have no degree. I've taken the time to teach myself the fundamentals. Dueling anecdotes here obviously but we all know plenty of people with CS degrees who are worthless when it comes to tackling a problem, and plenty of people without who are credits to their profession. Programmers program. If someone programs, they're a programmer. My daughter uses scratch to write software. She's 8, the software is not sophisticated but it's software. She's a programmer.
- reinhardt 14y ago
  This sounds as serious as claiming your daughter is a civil engineer because she builds LEGO buildings or she's a biologist because she knows to feed her goldfish. At the end of the day we need some terminology that distinguishes the guy that took a semester to learn MS Access from the one that took 4 years to study CS in university. It's an unfortunate common theme in HN but I can't think off the top of my head other white collar professions with such contempt for degrees and formal education. Are all the other fields doing it wrong or is programming so much easier than everything else that justifies the constant pat on the back for roll-you-own education?
  - kamjam 14y ago
    But I've met plenty of people who come out of uni with a CS degree and don't know squat. I totally get the distinction, and there needs to be a distinction between someone playing around, someone who is a junior and someone who is truly brilliant. But it doesn't require a degree to reach that top level. I only took some CS modules at uni, I learnt everything I know either on the job or off my own back, including OOP, JavaScript/OOJS, advanced HTML and CSS. They didn't teach you the difference between browsers either (I started back in IE4/Netscape days). What this guys daughter decides that at 18 years old (and now having programmed for 10 years) it's not worth going to uni because a) it'll cost too much and b) might as well get a 4 year head start over everyone else. So by that time she'll have 14 years experience. I think that would count for a hell of a lot more than a formal education. There's nothing magical about programming that a google search will not reveal.
  - mattdeboard 14y ago
    I'm almost afraid to tell you this given how important the title "programmer" seems to be to you... but the barrier to a stable, enjoyable, productive and well-paid career as a programmer is very, very, very low. Much lower than any other science or engineering field that I can think of.