6 ms·

This being Japan, you still have to sign for your digital delivery with a rubber ink stamp.

by donnachangstein 1y ago

nickpeterson 1y ago
Probably print a receipt using a fax machine hooked to a pc-engine.
- pezezin 1y ago
  You misspelled PC-98.
Freak_NL 1y ago
I wish we had those hanko. Signing off on any parcel is complete bullshit at the moment. Most delivery drivers neglect to ask for one (or that code you are supposed to give them for some delivery services), and when they do, you just make some arbitrary squiggle on their handheld device — it's not like you can actually do a faithful reproduction of your signature on those, even in 2025, and I certainly can't using my finger instead of a pencil or pen. Yesterday a courier brought a pallet with my new drill press costing over €500. Signature required, but when I asked he told me not to worry, there was no need…
- donnachangstein 1y ago
  UPS driver left a $3500 MacBook Pro on my front steps, didn't even ring the bell... signature required my ass.
  - ghaff 1y ago
    Don't know the last time I've been required to sign for something. That said, I live in a semi-rural location very well off the road.
  - ortusdux 1y ago
    Most delivery companies enacted signature exemption rules for covid and are in no hurry to rescind them. Getting signatures takes time, which affects their bottom line.
  - toomuchtodo 1y ago
    Protip: Ask for hold at location. Downside, you must drive to the facility. Upside, less hassle than if package is pirated. https://www.ups.com/us/en/track/change-delivery https://www.ups.com/us/en/track/change-delivery https://www.fedex.com/en-us/shipping/hold-at-location.html https://www.fedex.com/en-us/shipping/hold-at-location.html
    - ghaff 1y ago
      I suppose it depends on your assessment of the risk. For me, taking an extra 30-45 minutes to pick something up is a pretty high bar. I've had a couple mis-deliveries at home but it's rare and think I eventually got the items. That's versus hundreds of other deliveries.
    - ortusdux 1y ago
      UPS closed my local facility to the public last month. Now I can only drop packages off at third parties for a fee, and the nearest hold location is over an hour away.
      - ghaff 1y ago
        UPS was very unfriendly for consumer dropoffs for ages. That changed a bit. But seems to be headed back and I rarely get deliveries of Amazon stuff via UPS any longer.
    - somat 1y ago
      Salutes for using the term piracy correctly, well done.
  - oniony 1y ago
    Ass print?
- Tijdreiziger 1y ago
  Signature required shifts the burden of proof. If your drill press had been delivered to the wrong person, and the sender had chosen insured delivery (which automatically requires a signature), it would be easy to prove that the signature on file with the transporter did not match the actual signature of the recipient (i.e. you) (unless a fraudster forged your signature, that is). Mind you, from what I understand, the seller is legally responsible up to the point of delivery in the Netherlands*. Therefore, even if your drill press hadn’t been sent with required signature, the shop would still be responsible in case it had been lost (but then the loss would come out of their own pocket, rather than that of the transporter). Disclaimer: not a lawyer. * Assuming you’re from the Netherlands due to your user name.
  - Freak_NL 1y ago
    All that means is that as the receiving party there is absolutely no reason for me to sign anything, or even use my actual signature. Indeed, if the pallet was delivered to the wrong address and someone just took it, the burden of proof would lie with the selling party. Of course, a reputable transporter will make sure the address is right (plus, people generally don't act as if they were indeed expecting a pallet delivered by lorry).
    - Tijdreiziger 1y ago
      > All that means is that as the receiving party there is absolutely no reason for me to sign anything, or even use my actual signature. Yes, but this actually doesn’t matter. The only time when the signature on file is actually relevant is when the sender lodges a claim for non-delivery. In that case, it could be compared to your actual signature. Conversely, if no claim is lodged, the package must have been successfully delivered. Disclaimer: not a lawyer.
- tokioyoyo 1y ago
  Things have changed in the recent past, and you very rarely need your hanko. Maybe for marriage? Nowadays you cab register your signature at a bank and use it for any activity as well.
- SchemaLoad 1y ago
  I bought a Steam Deck off amazon and they sent me a code on the day of delivery telling me to only provide this code to the delivery person face to face while receiving the parcel. That seems like the perfect system because if you assume Amazon isn't trying to steal from you, the system can prove if the parcel was properly delivered or not.
- k33l0r 1y ago
  The fundamental problem with deliveries is that you, as the recipient, are not the customer. The merchant pays for thousands of deliveries, but you on the receiving end are at best getting a handful. So the courier is incentivised to offer the best rates to the merchant while completely ignoring the requirements or preferences of the recipient. Your only recourse is to complain to the shop, who might do something if the volume of complaints is high enough, but most likely they’ll just pass the buck to the courier…
  - dmurray 1y ago
    The recipient getting their stuff stolen is a big deal for the merchant too, though. Certainly for an expensive item, the customer may be out their time, but they are going to ask for a replacement or a refund or do a chargeback, the merchant is generally going to have to accede to the request, and the merchant ends up being out money. So if the merchant decides to trade off security for delivery cost (by choosing a courier with a slack approach to verification), that's their prerogative and they are economically incentivized to make the right decision on that. For delivery problems that don't result in a chargeback (the courier leaves it somewhere inconvenient, or claims you weren't in, etc, but it eventually gets to you) that's the situation where it becomes your problem and the merchant isn't much empowered or incentivized to fix it.
- Tor3 1y ago
  Agreed about the signing.. that's useless. But at least for some shipments with value we have to show an ID (not just any ID - I always carry my passport though), back in my home country. Just signing is worthless, in particular when that implies trying to "write" something on a touch screen using your finger. Here in Japan there's typically this little circle where you're supposed to stamp you hanko.. but I just sign my name, with a pen, whether the parcel is for me or for my wife. But at least the delivery guy will have me read the form to verify that it's actually for someone in the household. Not that I would prefer the hanko.. that idiocy just have to go. I can see no safety in the system, it's just a made-up stamp after all. It has no place in a modern world. And it's on the way out, as far as I understand, but I still hear stories about people forgetting the hanko when they go to the bank, and despite having passports and other IDs they're denied service. And you need to bring that thing everywhere for contracts and the like.. and everything has to be done by physical presence.
- pndy 1y ago
  It's a pain in the ass here with Polish Post with such screens - my signature doesn't even resembles one on the paper. Private delivery companies just call you to see if you're at home; you also have mobile apps and most of the time is possible to redirect packages to parcel machines. And these spawn like "shrooms after rain", as we say. They cared for codes, manual signing during pandemic but now - not really.
GloriousKoji 1y ago
If it was modernized a little, I think I would enjoy needing to tap a RFID hanko to my phone to sign for digital delivery.
- donnachangstein 1y ago
  > tap a RFID hanko we call those contactless smart cards
  - kazinator 1y ago
    RFID isn't smart; it's just a little chip that harvests energy from being illuminated by a radio wave signal from the terminal, and reflects back a code. (Well, that's a passive tag; there are self-powered ones also.) Smart cards contain a considerable embedded system for transactional processing; it's quite different from just transmitting an ID.
    - donnachangstein 1y ago
      > RFID isn't smart Makes it utterly useless as a digital signature then.
      - kazinator 1y ago
        Correct; an RFID tag cannot hold a cryptographic secret and perform a calculation with it to prove that it knows the secret, without revealing the secret. It has no compute capability. It's just a kind of reflective beacon.
        AStonesThrow 1y ago
        False: RFID is a communications technology that doesn’t restrict the use of a “smart” processor. EMV, NFC, and RFID are all related technologies which may underlie “tap to pay / sign” features. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contactless_payment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contactless_payment
xdfgh1112 1y ago
I've never had to do that. Hand signature or nothing at all.
ekianjo 1y ago
Nope. Signature works everytime. Don't spread myths.

This being Japan, you still have to sign for your digital delivery with a rubber ink stamp.

nickpeterson 1y ago

Probably print a receipt using a fax machine hooked to a pc-engine.

pezezin 1y ago
You misspelled PC-98.

Freak_NL 1y ago

I wish we had those hanko. Signing off on any parcel is complete bullshit at the moment. Most delivery drivers neglect to ask for one (or that code you are supposed to give them for some delivery services), and when they do, you just make some arbitrary squiggle on their handheld device — it's not like you can actually do a faithful reproduction of your signature on those, even in 2025, and I certainly can't using my finger instead of a pencil or pen. Yesterday a courier brought a pallet with my new drill press costing over €500. Signature required, but when I asked he told me not to worry, there was no need…

donnachangstein 1y ago
UPS driver left a $3500 MacBook Pro on my front steps, didn't even ring the bell... signature required my ass.
- ghaff 1y ago
  Don't know the last time I've been required to sign for something. That said, I live in a semi-rural location very well off the road.
- ortusdux 1y ago
  Most delivery companies enacted signature exemption rules for covid and are in no hurry to rescind them. Getting signatures takes time, which affects their bottom line.
- toomuchtodo 1y ago
  Protip: Ask for hold at location. Downside, you must drive to the facility. Upside, less hassle than if package is pirated. https://www.ups.com/us/en/track/change-delivery https://www.ups.com/us/en/track/change-delivery https://www.fedex.com/en-us/shipping/hold-at-location.html https://www.fedex.com/en-us/shipping/hold-at-location.html
  - ghaff 1y ago
    I suppose it depends on your assessment of the risk. For me, taking an extra 30-45 minutes to pick something up is a pretty high bar. I've had a couple mis-deliveries at home but it's rare and think I eventually got the items. That's versus hundreds of other deliveries.
  - ortusdux 1y ago
    UPS closed my local facility to the public last month. Now I can only drop packages off at third parties for a fee, and the nearest hold location is over an hour away.
    - ghaff 1y ago
      UPS was very unfriendly for consumer dropoffs for ages. That changed a bit. But seems to be headed back and I rarely get deliveries of Amazon stuff via UPS any longer.
  - somat 1y ago
    Salutes for using the term piracy correctly, well done.
- oniony 1y ago
  Ass print?
Tijdreiziger 1y ago
Signature required shifts the burden of proof. If your drill press had been delivered to the wrong person, and the sender had chosen insured delivery (which automatically requires a signature), it would be easy to prove that the signature on file with the transporter did not match the actual signature of the recipient (i.e. you) (unless a fraudster forged your signature, that is). Mind you, from what I understand, the seller is legally responsible up to the point of delivery in the Netherlands*. Therefore, even if your drill press hadn’t been sent with required signature, the shop would still be responsible in case it had been lost (but then the loss would come out of their own pocket, rather than that of the transporter). Disclaimer: not a lawyer. * Assuming you’re from the Netherlands due to your user name.
- Freak_NL 1y ago
  All that means is that as the receiving party there is absolutely no reason for me to sign anything, or even use my actual signature. Indeed, if the pallet was delivered to the wrong address and someone just took it, the burden of proof would lie with the selling party. Of course, a reputable transporter will make sure the address is right (plus, people generally don't act as if they were indeed expecting a pallet delivered by lorry).
  - Tijdreiziger 1y ago
    > All that means is that as the receiving party there is absolutely no reason for me to sign anything, or even use my actual signature. Yes, but this actually doesn’t matter. The only time when the signature on file is actually relevant is when the sender lodges a claim for non-delivery. In that case, it could be compared to your actual signature. Conversely, if no claim is lodged, the package must have been successfully delivered. Disclaimer: not a lawyer.
tokioyoyo 1y ago
Things have changed in the recent past, and you very rarely need your hanko. Maybe for marriage? Nowadays you cab register your signature at a bank and use it for any activity as well.
SchemaLoad 1y ago
I bought a Steam Deck off amazon and they sent me a code on the day of delivery telling me to only provide this code to the delivery person face to face while receiving the parcel. That seems like the perfect system because if you assume Amazon isn't trying to steal from you, the system can prove if the parcel was properly delivered or not.
k33l0r 1y ago
The fundamental problem with deliveries is that you, as the recipient, are not the customer. The merchant pays for thousands of deliveries, but you on the receiving end are at best getting a handful. So the courier is incentivised to offer the best rates to the merchant while completely ignoring the requirements or preferences of the recipient. Your only recourse is to complain to the shop, who might do something if the volume of complaints is high enough, but most likely they’ll just pass the buck to the courier…
- dmurray 1y ago
  The recipient getting their stuff stolen is a big deal for the merchant too, though. Certainly for an expensive item, the customer may be out their time, but they are going to ask for a replacement or a refund or do a chargeback, the merchant is generally going to have to accede to the request, and the merchant ends up being out money. So if the merchant decides to trade off security for delivery cost (by choosing a courier with a slack approach to verification), that's their prerogative and they are economically incentivized to make the right decision on that. For delivery problems that don't result in a chargeback (the courier leaves it somewhere inconvenient, or claims you weren't in, etc, but it eventually gets to you) that's the situation where it becomes your problem and the merchant isn't much empowered or incentivized to fix it.
Tor3 1y ago
Agreed about the signing.. that's useless. But at least for some shipments with value we have to show an ID (not just any ID - I always carry my passport though), back in my home country. Just signing is worthless, in particular when that implies trying to "write" something on a touch screen using your finger. Here in Japan there's typically this little circle where you're supposed to stamp you hanko.. but I just sign my name, with a pen, whether the parcel is for me or for my wife. But at least the delivery guy will have me read the form to verify that it's actually for someone in the household. Not that I would prefer the hanko.. that idiocy just have to go. I can see no safety in the system, it's just a made-up stamp after all. It has no place in a modern world. And it's on the way out, as far as I understand, but I still hear stories about people forgetting the hanko when they go to the bank, and despite having passports and other IDs they're denied service. And you need to bring that thing everywhere for contracts and the like.. and everything has to be done by physical presence.
pndy 1y ago
It's a pain in the ass here with Polish Post with such screens - my signature doesn't even resembles one on the paper. Private delivery companies just call you to see if you're at home; you also have mobile apps and most of the time is possible to redirect packages to parcel machines. And these spawn like "shrooms after rain", as we say. They cared for codes, manual signing during pandemic but now - not really.

GloriousKoji 1y ago

If it was modernized a little, I think I would enjoy needing to tap a RFID hanko to my phone to sign for digital delivery.

donnachangstein 1y ago
> tap a RFID hanko we call those contactless smart cards
- kazinator 1y ago
  RFID isn't smart; it's just a little chip that harvests energy from being illuminated by a radio wave signal from the terminal, and reflects back a code. (Well, that's a passive tag; there are self-powered ones also.) Smart cards contain a considerable embedded system for transactional processing; it's quite different from just transmitting an ID.
  - donnachangstein 1y ago
    > RFID isn't smart Makes it utterly useless as a digital signature then.
    - kazinator 1y ago
      Correct; an RFID tag cannot hold a cryptographic secret and perform a calculation with it to prove that it knows the secret, without revealing the secret. It has no compute capability. It's just a kind of reflective beacon.
      - AStonesThrow 1y ago
        False: RFID is a communications technology that doesn’t restrict the use of a “smart” processor. EMV, NFC, and RFID are all related technologies which may underlie “tap to pay / sign” features. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contactless_payment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contactless_payment

xdfgh1112 1y ago

I've never had to do that. Hand signature or nothing at all.

ekianjo 1y ago

Nope. Signature works everytime. Don't spread myths.