4 ms·

Grok3 could be leagues ahead of anything else in the game and yet a large portion of the western population would never use it due to its owners antics.

stackedinserter 1y ago
Don't overestimate the size of that portion.
- saubeidl 1y ago
  Don't underestimate it. https://www.arenaev.com/teslas_european_sales_keep_falling_while_ev_market_booms-news-4750.php https://www.arenaev.com/teslas_european_sales_keep_falling_w...
  - abletonlive 1y ago
    It’s fair to underestimate it when Tesla is still the dominant fully EV automaker globally and in all the markets that this article talks about.
    - seangrogg 1y ago
      By what metric(s)? Not being disingenuous, purely curious.
      - abletonlive 1y ago
        By number of fully EV sold each quarter. Take out hybrids from the metric because Tesla does not make hybrids
        seangrogg 1y ago
        Valid. And I do think they'll continue to own the lion's share of total sales for a while. But is there any concern over their being down YOY for Q1 while other manufacturers are largely growing? Or is the expectation that it's a temporary blip and they'll continue growing in the upcoming quarters from previous YOY numbers?
        overfeed 1y ago
        > And I do think they'll continue to own the lion's share of total sales for a while Maybe in the US where they are protected from Chinese competition. Tesla's fall in Europe has been precipitous, falling by more than 50% YoY. BYD sales overtook Tesla for the first time ever in the last quarter in Western Europe.
        ascorbic 1y ago
        Don't underestimate how far they've fallen. Tesla is nowhere near the top in Europe anymore. VW sold three times as many EVs as Tesla, with BYD in second place. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-just-got-overtaken-europe-171208464.html?guccounter=1 https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-just-got-overtaken-euro...
        abletonlive 1y ago
        This is wrong and I would encourage you to check your sources or look into the industry more before posting a blind yahoo article that was clearly written by AI. VW did not sell three times as many EVs as Tesla. https://www.carscoops.com/2025/04/vw-finally-beats-tesla-outselling-it-in-q1-ev-sales-in-europe/ https://www.carscoops.com/2025/04/vw-finally-beats-tesla-out... In many of the comparisons, they try to make it more dramatic than it really is by saying volkswagen as an entire brand sold X more than tesla. Well of course they did, they sell hybrids and ICE vehicles too. > Tesla is nowhere near the top in Europe anymore. This is factually incorrect. They are #2 overall BEV sales in europe for Q1 2025 and also own #1 and #2 spots for best selling BEV models. I would expect such a low quality comment from reddit, not HN, but alas here we are in 2025. And additional reminder for folks that have an axe to grind that perhaps clouds their judgement of reality: when you've dominated the BEV market for almost 10 years, going sideways and down in marketshare is pretty much the only option.
        seangrogg 1y ago
        Definitely makes sense that if they are a market leader for an extended period of time they would expect to trade sideways; my question is whether or not Tesla is expected to come out stronger as a growth company in the upcoming quarters (i.e. their recent talks of doing robotaxi work; are investors seeing that as a serious growth angle?) or should Tesla begin investigating an income/dividend stock angle?
fourseventy 1y ago
Most people have no idea who the CEO of the various tech companies are and don't care.
- saubeidl 1y ago
  I don't think that's true. Pretty much everyone knows that Twitter is owned by the guy who gives Nazi salutes and supports far right parties abroad.
- afavour 1y ago
  True, but Musk is an exception. And deliberately so, his media image was one of the things that made Tesla so notable. But we’re seeing recently that it goes both ways.
  - drivingmenuts 1y ago
    It's maddening that everyone seems to just overlook the whole neo-Nazi supporter bit.
  - overfeed 1y ago
    Musk was the PR, press and Marketing departments rolled into one for Tesla and X, so much so that he fired the PR team at Twitter. "The public doesn't care who the CEO is" is certifiably not true for Musk ventures, and Musk exploited that brand value in the past positively. The inauguration Seig Heil, and the subsequent DOGE misadventures are the other side of that "personal brand" coin, which very much exists for this CEO.

stackedinserter 1y ago

Don't overestimate the size of that portion.

saubeidl 1y ago
Don't underestimate it. https://www.arenaev.com/teslas_european_sales_keep_falling_while_ev_market_booms-news-4750.php https://www.arenaev.com/teslas_european_sales_keep_falling_w...
- abletonlive 1y ago
  It’s fair to underestimate it when Tesla is still the dominant fully EV automaker globally and in all the markets that this article talks about.
  - seangrogg 1y ago
    By what metric(s)? Not being disingenuous, purely curious.
    - abletonlive 1y ago
      By number of fully EV sold each quarter. Take out hybrids from the metric because Tesla does not make hybrids
      - seangrogg 1y ago
        Valid. And I do think they'll continue to own the lion's share of total sales for a while. But is there any concern over their being down YOY for Q1 while other manufacturers are largely growing? Or is the expectation that it's a temporary blip and they'll continue growing in the upcoming quarters from previous YOY numbers?
        overfeed 1y ago
        > And I do think they'll continue to own the lion's share of total sales for a while Maybe in the US where they are protected from Chinese competition. Tesla's fall in Europe has been precipitous, falling by more than 50% YoY. BYD sales overtook Tesla for the first time ever in the last quarter in Western Europe.
      - ascorbic 1y ago
        Don't underestimate how far they've fallen. Tesla is nowhere near the top in Europe anymore. VW sold three times as many EVs as Tesla, with BYD in second place. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-just-got-overtaken-europe-171208464.html?guccounter=1 https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-just-got-overtaken-euro...
        abletonlive 1y ago
        This is wrong and I would encourage you to check your sources or look into the industry more before posting a blind yahoo article that was clearly written by AI. VW did not sell three times as many EVs as Tesla. https://www.carscoops.com/2025/04/vw-finally-beats-tesla-outselling-it-in-q1-ev-sales-in-europe/ https://www.carscoops.com/2025/04/vw-finally-beats-tesla-out... In many of the comparisons, they try to make it more dramatic than it really is by saying volkswagen as an entire brand sold X more than tesla. Well of course they did, they sell hybrids and ICE vehicles too. > Tesla is nowhere near the top in Europe anymore. This is factually incorrect. They are #2 overall BEV sales in europe for Q1 2025 and also own #1 and #2 spots for best selling BEV models. I would expect such a low quality comment from reddit, not HN, but alas here we are in 2025. And additional reminder for folks that have an axe to grind that perhaps clouds their judgement of reality: when you've dominated the BEV market for almost 10 years, going sideways and down in marketshare is pretty much the only option.
        seangrogg 1y ago
        Definitely makes sense that if they are a market leader for an extended period of time they would expect to trade sideways; my question is whether or not Tesla is expected to come out stronger as a growth company in the upcoming quarters (i.e. their recent talks of doing robotaxi work; are investors seeing that as a serious growth angle?) or should Tesla begin investigating an income/dividend stock angle?

fourseventy 1y ago

Most people have no idea who the CEO of the various tech companies are and don't care.

saubeidl 1y ago
I don't think that's true. Pretty much everyone knows that Twitter is owned by the guy who gives Nazi salutes and supports far right parties abroad.
afavour 1y ago
True, but Musk is an exception. And deliberately so, his media image was one of the things that made Tesla so notable. But we’re seeing recently that it goes both ways.
- drivingmenuts 1y ago
  It's maddening that everyone seems to just overlook the whole neo-Nazi supporter bit.
- overfeed 1y ago
  Musk was the PR, press and Marketing departments rolled into one for Tesla and X, so much so that he fired the PR team at Twitter. "The public doesn't care who the CEO is" is certifiably not true for Musk ventures, and Musk exploited that brand value in the past positively. The inauguration Seig Heil, and the subsequent DOGE misadventures are the other side of that "personal brand" coin, which very much exists for this CEO.