4 ms·

Fun fact: After some $330m of BTC were stolen last month, Monero spiked 40%+, presumably because the proceeds of that theft were laundered. https://x.com/zachx

by FabHK 1y ago

Fun fact: After some $330m of BTC were stolen last month, Monero spiked 40%+, presumably because the proceeds of that theft were laundered. https://x.com/zachxbt/status/1916756932763046273 https://x.com/zachxbt/status/1916756932763046273

yieldcrv 1y ago
> presumably because the proceeds of that theft were laundered this phrase highlights some really common but unnecessary misunderstandings 1) the proceeds swapped to Monero. there is nothing "presumably" about that because we can see they were swapped to Monero. It isn't a correlation, the instant exchanges show and retain records that they were swapped to Monero. 2) they are unlinking the origin and destination of illicitly obtained funds, so that is laundering BUT 3) its equally as likely that Monero is the destination. there is no further swapping out to hide. no further laundering to complete. Monero can be used to purchase goods, services, and invest with as well. I think this is as misunderstood as people actually wanting to hold bitcoin was 10 years ago. 4) Monero is an old coin, from one of the first crypto cycles, one thing that's held people back from using it and other mixers is the liquidity. If a large hack of funds used any one of them, then most of the funds coming out would be probabilistically part of the hack and illicit. But if MANY of the hacks used it and other licit sources, this would improve the liquidity for everyone and other hacks. Liquidity begets liquidity. It was only a matter of time before someone started it.
ofjcihen 1y ago
I wonder how common this kind of swapping is. Its an interesting financial vehicle when a valid and legal investment strategy is to try to time the laundering of different assets.
- multjoy 1y ago
  It's massively common. USDT is the usual coin of choice because even though the ledger is public, the convenience and relative stability massively outweighs the security risks. In the jobs I've seen, the marks will be 'investing' in BTC but the criminals will be moving those funds out into USDT the moment it hits the bandit wallet.
  - hoppp 1y ago
    USDT can be frozen so its not the best choice. Its definitely a failure of the Tether team if criminals can openly use it to launder funds without it getting frozen, but they are famously anti regulation.
    - cempaka 1y ago
      The usefulness in money laundering is a feature not a bug, and is why Tether is permitted to continue operating.
      - piracyrules 1y ago
        [dead]
    - stephen_g 1y ago
      From what I've heard about Tether (allegedly printing tethers backed by loans to insiders, or backed by very risky commercial paper, or even potentially billions of USDT backed by nothing), I think being useful for money laundering is the least of anyone's worries...
  - piracyrules 1y ago
    [dead]
JumpCrisscross 1y ago
Wouldn't the interface between BTC and Monero be the weak point? Where do they make that swap reliably?
- max51 1y ago
  exchanges that only support cryptos and not fiat money don't require KYC. In some cases, you don't even need to create an account at all. It is extremelly easy to swap from one crypto to another in a few clicks.

by FabHK 1y ago

yieldcrv 1y ago

> presumably because the proceeds of that theft were laundered this phrase highlights some really common but unnecessary misunderstandings 1) the proceeds swapped to Monero. there is nothing "presumably" about that because we can see they were swapped to Monero. It isn't a correlation, the instant exchanges show and retain records that they were swapped to Monero. 2) they are unlinking the origin and destination of illicitly obtained funds, so that is laundering BUT 3) its equally as likely that Monero is the destination. there is no further swapping out to hide. no further laundering to complete. Monero can be used to purchase goods, services, and invest with as well. I think this is as misunderstood as people actually wanting to hold bitcoin was 10 years ago. 4) Monero is an old coin, from one of the first crypto cycles, one thing that's held people back from using it and other mixers is the liquidity. If a large hack of funds used any one of them, then most of the funds coming out would be probabilistically part of the hack and illicit. But if MANY of the hacks used it and other licit sources, this would improve the liquidity for everyone and other hacks. Liquidity begets liquidity. It was only a matter of time before someone started it.

ofjcihen 1y ago

I wonder how common this kind of swapping is. Its an interesting financial vehicle when a valid and legal investment strategy is to try to time the laundering of different assets.

multjoy 1y ago
It's massively common. USDT is the usual coin of choice because even though the ledger is public, the convenience and relative stability massively outweighs the security risks. In the jobs I've seen, the marks will be 'investing' in BTC but the criminals will be moving those funds out into USDT the moment it hits the bandit wallet.
- hoppp 1y ago
  USDT can be frozen so its not the best choice. Its definitely a failure of the Tether team if criminals can openly use it to launder funds without it getting frozen, but they are famously anti regulation.
  - cempaka 1y ago
    The usefulness in money laundering is a feature not a bug, and is why Tether is permitted to continue operating.
    - piracyrules 1y ago
      [dead]
  - stephen_g 1y ago
    From what I've heard about Tether (allegedly printing tethers backed by loans to insiders, or backed by very risky commercial paper, or even potentially billions of USDT backed by nothing), I think being useful for money laundering is the least of anyone's worries...
- piracyrules 1y ago
  [dead]

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

Wouldn't the interface between BTC and Monero be the weak point? Where do they make that swap reliably?

max51 1y ago
exchanges that only support cryptos and not fiat money don't require KYC. In some cases, you don't even need to create an account at all. It is extremelly easy to swap from one crypto to another in a few clicks.