6 ms·

Because there is no objective way to say whether something is a good idea or bad idea. It's always subjective.

by hshshshshsh 1y ago

worldsavior 1y ago
Maybe that's why religion exists, to make it objective.
- throwawayffffas 1y ago
  Religion disagrees on what is good and bad.
  - tomrod 1y ago
    Religion derives its moral authority from mythology, existence, and consent. Nothing else. Whether that a religion espouses an alternative worldview in order for its leaders to justify actions that would normally not be justifiable is a big part of how we got into this anti-pluralist mess to begin with.
- nathan_compton 1y ago
  To make it appear objective, I think you mean.
lo_zamoyski 1y ago
Your comment seems to contradict that claim.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- hshshshshsh 1y ago
  I never claimed mine was a good or bad idea.
  - lo_zamoyski 1y ago
    Speech acts are value-laden. You thought your comment was valuable enough to share.
    - hshshshshsh 1y ago
      That's fair. Never thought about it that way.
pama 1y ago
Any untrue/invalid idea is bad. So it is not always subjective. “Tigers are friendly pets and every apartment in SF should have one” is an obviously bad idea.
- tomrod 1y ago
  I just argued your side, but I don't think this defense holds up. Little white lies are objectively okay.
  - the_af 1y ago
    > Little white lies are objectively okay. They are subjectively ok. Some people believe lying is always bad. I think the "true idea" (or let's call it "reasonable idea") when fully spelled out is "sometimes a white lie will be beneficial, will cause less harm, will inspire confidence in the receiver; and conversely, the harsh truth may harm them or be counterproductive". It's not the white lie itself that is the "good idea that is untrue"; the good idea is the reasoning behind the white lie, which is true.
    - tomrod 1y ago
      > Some people believe lying is always bad. Simply because someone believes something does not move the phenomenon to the subjective realm. The Earth is not flat. Some may argue a case for why they believe lying is always bad and would never engage in it. Yet experience proves those most vociferously against little white lies are often lying to themselves on a variety of topics. "Honey, does this make me look fat" is a no-win situation for these individuals.
      - hshshshshsh 1y ago
        > Simply because someone believes something does not move the phenomenon to the subjective realm. From your POV yes. From their POV no.
      - the_af 1y ago
        > The Earth is not flat I'm sorry, you cannot use this argument. It's not even in the same category. Whether telling a white lie is ok is as subjective as it gets. You can pick better examples if you want to make the case that some ideas are objectively good or bad; this one is not it.
tomrod 1y ago
This, ironically, is an objectively bad idea. In game theory and mechanism design, there exist dominant strategies. This is an objective truth, and exercising the dominant strategy is objectively better than not. The earth orbits the sun. This is an objective idea. Fighting against the notion is objectively a bad idea. Elephants shouldn't come in my house. I value it not destroying things in my home, etc. You shouldn't deliberately reuse GUIDs as an IDs for things that are different. Relativism is certainly something that exists, but it shouldn't be universally applied that all ideas are of equal value in all situations. Socially, sure, use relativism when listening to ideas before coming to a consensus. That doesn't mean all ideas work, only that all ideas are given the same treatment. But bad ideas exist, as do good ideas.
- Joker_vD 1y ago
  > Elephants shouldn't come in my house. This is a subjective statement. > I value it not destroying things in my home. This is an objective statement. But other people are free to assign their own subjective value to it. Some people would would like you to suffer from your possessions destroyed e.g. by a trampling elephant. The previous statement was also an objective statement but it doesn't mean you have to acquiesce to it. > But bad ideas exist, as do good ideas. Sure, but which of ideas are "bad" and which are "good" depends on the value system of the thing/person doing the appraisal. E.g. deliberately reusing GUIDs for different requests may allow bypass of authorization checks — which is a good thing for an attacker, but not so good for the system's owner.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 1y ago
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- hshshshshsh 1y ago
  > dominant strategies. This is an objective truth, and exercising the dominant strategy is objectively better than not. From your POV people play to dominate and it's objective for you. But that's not the case for everyone. Some play to just play.
oblio 1y ago
Jumping without a parachute (and even with it; nor other factors that will slow you down or cushion the fall, etc) from 300m onto hard concrete is a bad idea. You are welcome to test the opposite hypothesis, please send postcards from after the jump.
MSFT_Edging 1y ago
It takes one minute of thinking about the secondary effects of an idea to show this is an awful take. For example, legalizing sports gambling. It's a good idea in that it makes obscene amounts of money. It's a bad idea in that it exploits a known pathway to addiction, moving money from being spent productively to an exclusively extractive endeavor. Not to mention the other secondary effects of how sports are presented to benefit the sports gambling apps. Generally it's a net loss except for the company that operates the apps. This can be applied across a lot of "products" in the tech sphere. app-based payday loans, AI "art" that exploits a common denominator of critical thinking and reduces the quality of art across the board. Sure the live action Lilo and Stitch made tons of money, but the color grading is dogshit, they removed several important pieces of cultural commentary that was central to the plot, etc all to cash in on children who literally don't know any better. It's literally more profitable to push slop than it is to put any effort into creating anything. So if "good idea" means it makes money, what incentive is there to create anything above the low "slop" bar? Why do we have to see everything degrade for the sake of profit? That's what a bad idea going viral is. It doesn't have to be good to get attention. Kids running through people's fences gets attention.

Because there is no objective way to say whether something is a good idea or bad idea. It's always subjective.

worldsavior 1y ago

Maybe that's why religion exists, to make it objective.

throwawayffffas 1y ago
Religion disagrees on what is good and bad.
- tomrod 1y ago
  Religion derives its moral authority from mythology, existence, and consent. Nothing else. Whether that a religion espouses an alternative worldview in order for its leaders to justify actions that would normally not be justifiable is a big part of how we got into this anti-pluralist mess to begin with.
nathan_compton 1y ago
To make it appear objective, I think you mean.

lo_zamoyski 1y ago

Your comment seems to contradict that claim.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
hshshshshsh 1y ago
I never claimed mine was a good or bad idea.
- lo_zamoyski 1y ago
  Speech acts are value-laden. You thought your comment was valuable enough to share.
  - hshshshshsh 1y ago
    That's fair. Never thought about it that way.

pama 1y ago

Any untrue/invalid idea is bad. So it is not always subjective. “Tigers are friendly pets and every apartment in SF should have one” is an obviously bad idea.

tomrod 1y ago
I just argued your side, but I don't think this defense holds up. Little white lies are objectively okay.
- the_af 1y ago
  > Little white lies are objectively okay. They are subjectively ok. Some people believe lying is always bad. I think the "true idea" (or let's call it "reasonable idea") when fully spelled out is "sometimes a white lie will be beneficial, will cause less harm, will inspire confidence in the receiver; and conversely, the harsh truth may harm them or be counterproductive". It's not the white lie itself that is the "good idea that is untrue"; the good idea is the reasoning behind the white lie, which is true.
  - tomrod 1y ago
    > Some people believe lying is always bad. Simply because someone believes something does not move the phenomenon to the subjective realm. The Earth is not flat. Some may argue a case for why they believe lying is always bad and would never engage in it. Yet experience proves those most vociferously against little white lies are often lying to themselves on a variety of topics. "Honey, does this make me look fat" is a no-win situation for these individuals.
    - hshshshshsh 1y ago
      > Simply because someone believes something does not move the phenomenon to the subjective realm. From your POV yes. From their POV no.
    - the_af 1y ago
      > The Earth is not flat I'm sorry, you cannot use this argument. It's not even in the same category. Whether telling a white lie is ok is as subjective as it gets. You can pick better examples if you want to make the case that some ideas are objectively good or bad; this one is not it.

tomrod 1y ago

This, ironically, is an objectively bad idea. In game theory and mechanism design, there exist dominant strategies. This is an objective truth, and exercising the dominant strategy is objectively better than not. The earth orbits the sun. This is an objective idea. Fighting against the notion is objectively a bad idea. Elephants shouldn't come in my house. I value it not destroying things in my home, etc. You shouldn't deliberately reuse GUIDs as an IDs for things that are different. Relativism is certainly something that exists, but it shouldn't be universally applied that all ideas are of equal value in all situations. Socially, sure, use relativism when listening to ideas before coming to a consensus. That doesn't mean all ideas work, only that all ideas are given the same treatment. But bad ideas exist, as do good ideas.

Joker_vD 1y ago
> Elephants shouldn't come in my house. This is a subjective statement. > I value it not destroying things in my home. This is an objective statement. But other people are free to assign their own subjective value to it. Some people would would like you to suffer from your possessions destroyed e.g. by a trampling elephant. The previous statement was also an objective statement but it doesn't mean you have to acquiesce to it. > But bad ideas exist, as do good ideas. Sure, but which of ideas are "bad" and which are "good" depends on the value system of the thing/person doing the appraisal. E.g. deliberately reusing GUIDs for different requests may allow bypass of authorization checks — which is a good thing for an attacker, but not so good for the system's owner.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
hshshshshsh 1y ago
> dominant strategies. This is an objective truth, and exercising the dominant strategy is objectively better than not. From your POV people play to dominate and it's objective for you. But that's not the case for everyone. Some play to just play.

oblio 1y ago

Jumping without a parachute (and even with it; nor other factors that will slow you down or cushion the fall, etc) from 300m onto hard concrete is a bad idea. You are welcome to test the opposite hypothesis, please send postcards from after the jump.

MSFT_Edging 1y ago

It takes one minute of thinking about the secondary effects of an idea to show this is an awful take. For example, legalizing sports gambling. It's a good idea in that it makes obscene amounts of money. It's a bad idea in that it exploits a known pathway to addiction, moving money from being spent productively to an exclusively extractive endeavor. Not to mention the other secondary effects of how sports are presented to benefit the sports gambling apps. Generally it's a net loss except for the company that operates the apps. This can be applied across a lot of "products" in the tech sphere. app-based payday loans, AI "art" that exploits a common denominator of critical thinking and reduces the quality of art across the board. Sure the live action Lilo and Stitch made tons of money, but the color grading is dogshit, they removed several important pieces of cultural commentary that was central to the plot, etc all to cash in on children who literally don't know any better. It's literally more profitable to push slop than it is to put any effort into creating anything. So if "good idea" means it makes money, what incentive is there to create anything above the low "slop" bar? Why do we have to see everything degrade for the sake of profit? That's what a bad idea going viral is. It doesn't have to be good to get attention. Kids running through people's fences gets attention.