4 ms·

While I absolutely applaud the effort and tenacity of this individual, at the same time, I feel a substantial amount of trepidation regarding the current state

• jeffreybaird 14y ago
  When I was hired it was with the very clear understanding that I was to be taught a lot and I was being hired for my desire to learn. Sometimes if you can't find a qualified candidate you have to train them.
  • drgath 14y ago
    You have a great attitude. Reminds me of my start as well ~10 years ago, and now I work on a project that 700+ million people use / month. I think curiosity is the best skill a developer can have, because with it, they can learn just about anything else they need to. Congrats and good luck!
  • wyclif 14y ago
    Yes, and that "have to train them" is the truth that's missing from a lot of these conversations: all these startups want "rock star" devs but they don't want to invest anything in training. But no matter what the skill level of your devs, companies should be investing in lots of training anyway to stay competitive.
    • TDL 14y ago
      This is a more pervasive problem than just the tech industry. Many industries in the U.S. have limited to no training and no mentor programs. Training is perceived as an easy cost to eliminate.
• tgrass 14y ago
  Next time you cross a bridge, realize civil engineering has the same issue.
  • lightcatcher 14y ago
    Is this a metaphorical point, or do you actually have knowledge of the civil engineering job market? I wouldn't think that civil engineering would find itself in a similar place as the software industry, because civil engineering work seems like it would be more constant over time and less susceptible to bubbles. This would mean the demand for new civil engineers would be relatively time constant. However, I know nothing about the job market for civil engineers, so if you do, could you please horrify me and tell me that civil engineering standards have actually fallen in recent times?
    • thomseddon 14y ago
      I've just graduated in Civil Engineering and many of my peers are seeking jobs in the industry (UK). In terms of market conditions, you are quite right in that although volumes do fluctuate with economic conditions, work is always required (remedial work for example). Also, and I can only speak for the UK here, in tougher economic times the government often tenders large infrastructure projects to boost demand (think HSR). The other reason civ eng is quite different is due to a high level of regulation and accreditation, in most countries you simply cannot practice (legally) if you are not chartered. This is one of the major factors that drove me away and into an industry where i could move much faster, with more freedom and lesser consequences (most of the time!!).
    • keithpeter 14y ago
      UK specific: very tight regulation, including audited software, together with economy of scale leading to standardised and 'modular' construction. I don't think people here would like being a civil engineer, it's a very conservative profession. Construction is notoriously cyclic: demand for civils will ramp up when the next boom comes along.
    • tgrass 14y ago
      I was not replying to the point about lowering the bar due to market demand. Though, now that I think about it, if you were a very bright engineer, would you go into a lackluster career in civil that would start out at $45k and only find small increases in salary now that there is little demand for housing, or would you go into software? So clearly there is going to be brain drain. But I was not referring to market economics. See my point above (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4412278 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4412278). I will say that my point did not suggest "horror" - as in horrifying you. Leaking sensitive user data is not, in my opinion, on par with a bridge completely structurally failing while traffic is on it. Unless of course the web app is for a bank. Which is the sort of security work that likely does not have the coffee fetching intern designing its protocols. But even then, I think as a society we are clearly willing to have many more cases of ID theft than deaths from bridge failure. The comparison should be equal: are there bridges that require maintenance more often than is reasonable? Is their lifespan long enough? Are their piers sunk deeply enough to accommodate the scour of the river (we have several bridges here locally that are under restoration efforts because the scour was not adequately considered)? Was the water surface elevation of the design storm of the river accurately predicted to which the answer is realistically always no; there is no such thing as accuracy in backwater analysis - for before one even begins to model the river, one has to assume how MUCH water it could have - and that can vary widely, being a combination of not-always-comprehensive statistical analysis of historical precipitation, stream gauge data, and semi-empirical algorithms - stress on the semi. Now, see my above comment about how civil plans actually get out the door, and I would say this is not a metaphor. We know from experience that if a "hot new startup" or even a stodgy old site (linkedIn, eHarmony, Last.FM) loses user data, it is not the end of the world, let alone the end of the startup. If a bridge fails and falls, the PE loses his licence. If the bridge fails and requires extra maintenance, the county and the firm lawyer up and the JDs make a lot of money in court.
• nhangen 14y ago
  How do you propose people learn those skills?
  • wtracy 14y ago
    The OWASP Top Ten Application Security Risks is a good starting place: http://owasptop10.googlecode.com/files/OWASP%20Top%2010%20-%202010.pdf http://owasptop10.googlecode.com/files/OWASP%20Top%2010%20-%...
• mquander 14y ago
  Although I really sympathize with your frustration at the amount of crappy software being written, the alternative is the same software not existing at all; there aren't nearly enough programmers to write everything we need. In most cases, I would prefer crappy, insecure software to nothing, so I'm all in favor of newbie programmers trying their hand at filling the holes in our world. (Also, newbie programmers working now increases the expected amount of skilled programmers fifteen or twenty years from now.)
  • meritt 14y ago
    Oh I agree with you. I'm extremely ambivalent on the situation. Except for the abundance of "Share thoughts/messages/pictures/music with your significant other/close friends/social network/professional network/the world on our exclusive app!". We have enough of that software.
    • mquander 14y ago
      We sort of have enough (for me, zero of those is enough) but I think more is still better than less, since individual applications of that type might come up with some useful ideas that get adopted by others.
• bdcravens 14y ago
  I suspect that's the result of over-hiring (giving a $150K senior position to someone who should be junior). I think it's less a matter of experience than laziness: I've met too many CS majors and/or devs with 10 years of experience who write this code. They get lazy, complacent, and confident, and never grow. On the other hand, the OP has a hunger: I suspect he'll continue to grow if he stays hungry. You don't magically write better code by sitting in a desk for 5 years: you write better code by seeking growth.
• 0xDECAFFEE 14y ago
  But it's ruby, and not doubt ruby's tag along Mr. Rails! By your comment, one would think the guy was developing in PHP!