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UK universities should be rolling out the red carpet for all the great students who the USA no longer want. Unfortunately our government seems more interested

UK universities should be rolling out the red carpet for all the great students who the USA no longer want. Unfortunately our government seems more interested in pandering to the bigots who think "more foreigners == bad". :-(

gambiting 1y ago
UK universities did their own student exodus move with brexit, I'm still friends with several professors of Russel group universities and they all say the same thing - after Brexit the number of MSc and PhD level students have collapsed and not recovered anywhere since. UK is in for a very rude awakening in a few years where its position as a superpower in research starts to dwindle. And to add on top of it - the universities are now cramming as many international(non-EU) students as possible, because they pay ridiculous fees that support school coffers - lecturers are more or less directly told they are not allowed to fail those students in any way almost no matter the transgression because they are the main source of income for universities.
tbrownaw 1y ago
Hasn't the UK been jailing people for sending mean tweets? That seems a bit beyond refusing entry.
- ben_w 1y ago
  If you mean this one: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/why-was-lucy-connolly-jailed-for-a-tweet-and-why-was-her-appeal-dismissed/ar-AA1F8xCN https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/why-was-lucy-connolly-... Then no, she was jailed for calling for incitement to commit crimes. If you mean this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter_joke_trial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter_joke_trial Then I'd say essentially yes, despite it being a fine and not imprisonment and getting quashed later anyway, because most of us aren't lawyers and won't care about that kind of distinction — and that goes double for students on a visa.
  - AlecSchueler 1y ago
    So it happened but only if you don't care about the distinction between fact and fiction.
    - ben_w 1y ago
      Closer to the opposite, it happens more when we do care about the distinction. [Edit: Just realised the "you" in your comment can either be the poster or the police, with very different consequences.] The rules are something that looks like a credible threat. Both these, at the time of the conviction, did look credible. The second was only overturned because enough people argued well enough that it wasn't credible and shouldn't have ever been seen as credible. The rules were then changed to emphasise the arguments people had made so this didn't happen again.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
einszwei 1y ago
The conversation in UK media and the ruling class consensus has shifted so far to the right on immigration that it would be a miracle if UK continues to see similar levels of foreign student enrolment in future.
- nssnsjsjsjs 1y ago
  What about Australia! Nope also reducing foreign student numbers. Maybe China can become the destination for ambitious smart people. There is a big opportunity to pull in brain power for any country who wants it and can offer the follow on career.
  - ben_w 1y ago
    > Maybe China can become the destination for ambitious smart people. Don't underestimate the language barrier. All those stereotypes about Chinese people mixing Rs and Ls? That works both ways, not just tongue twisters like Lion-Eating Poet in the Stone Den*, but even "Hello": https://translate.google.com/?sl=auto&tl=en&text=“你好”%20%2F%20“泥壕”%20%2F%20%22你号%22&op=translate https://translate.google.com/?sl=auto&tl=en&text=“你好”%20%2F%... And machine translation is currently so bad, that the last few time I tried giving an example here, people who actually speak Chinese would respond with something along the lines of "I have no idea what you tried to write, that is nonsensical". * https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vExjnn_3ep4&pp=ygUhTGlvbi1FYXRpbmcgUG9ldCBpbiB0aGUgU3RvbmUgRGVu https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vExjnn_3ep4&pp=ygUhTGlvbi1FYXR...
    - int_19h 1y ago
      > And machine translation is currently so bad, that the last few time I tried giving an example here, people who actually speak Chinese would respond with something along the lines of "I have no idea what you tried to write, that is nonsensical". Have you tried LLMs for that?
      - ben_w 1y ago
        Yes, and not just in the well-technically sense of Google Translate being a Transformer model.

gambiting 1y ago

UK universities did their own student exodus move with brexit, I'm still friends with several professors of Russel group universities and they all say the same thing - after Brexit the number of MSc and PhD level students have collapsed and not recovered anywhere since. UK is in for a very rude awakening in a few years where its position as a superpower in research starts to dwindle. And to add on top of it - the universities are now cramming as many international(non-EU) students as possible, because they pay ridiculous fees that support school coffers - lecturers are more or less directly told they are not allowed to fail those students in any way almost no matter the transgression because they are the main source of income for universities.

tbrownaw 1y ago

Hasn't the UK been jailing people for sending mean tweets? That seems a bit beyond refusing entry.

ben_w 1y ago
If you mean this one: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/why-was-lucy-connolly-jailed-for-a-tweet-and-why-was-her-appeal-dismissed/ar-AA1F8xCN https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/why-was-lucy-connolly-... Then no, she was jailed for calling for incitement to commit crimes. If you mean this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter_joke_trial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter_joke_trial Then I'd say essentially yes, despite it being a fine and not imprisonment and getting quashed later anyway, because most of us aren't lawyers and won't care about that kind of distinction — and that goes double for students on a visa.
- AlecSchueler 1y ago
  So it happened but only if you don't care about the distinction between fact and fiction.
  - ben_w 1y ago
    Closer to the opposite, it happens more when we do care about the distinction. [Edit: Just realised the "you" in your comment can either be the poster or the police, with very different consequences.] The rules are something that looks like a credible threat. Both these, at the time of the conviction, did look credible. The second was only overturned because enough people argued well enough that it wasn't credible and shouldn't have ever been seen as credible. The rules were then changed to emphasise the arguments people had made so this didn't happen again.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]

einszwei 1y ago

The conversation in UK media and the ruling class consensus has shifted so far to the right on immigration that it would be a miracle if UK continues to see similar levels of foreign student enrolment in future.

nssnsjsjsjs 1y ago
What about Australia! Nope also reducing foreign student numbers. Maybe China can become the destination for ambitious smart people. There is a big opportunity to pull in brain power for any country who wants it and can offer the follow on career.
- ben_w 1y ago
  > Maybe China can become the destination for ambitious smart people. Don't underestimate the language barrier. All those stereotypes about Chinese people mixing Rs and Ls? That works both ways, not just tongue twisters like Lion-Eating Poet in the Stone Den*, but even "Hello": https://translate.google.com/?sl=auto&tl=en&text=“你好”%20%2F%20“泥壕”%20%2F%20%22你号%22&op=translate https://translate.google.com/?sl=auto&tl=en&text=“你好”%20%2F%... And machine translation is currently so bad, that the last few time I tried giving an example here, people who actually speak Chinese would respond with something along the lines of "I have no idea what you tried to write, that is nonsensical". * https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vExjnn_3ep4&pp=ygUhTGlvbi1FYXRpbmcgUG9ldCBpbiB0aGUgU3RvbmUgRGVu https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vExjnn_3ep4&pp=ygUhTGlvbi1FYXR...
  - int_19h 1y ago
    > And machine translation is currently so bad, that the last few time I tried giving an example here, people who actually speak Chinese would respond with something along the lines of "I have no idea what you tried to write, that is nonsensical". Have you tried LLMs for that?
    - ben_w 1y ago
      Yes, and not just in the well-technically sense of Google Translate being a Transformer model.