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How to Get a Job as a Developer in Less Than Six Months

220 points by reubenpressman 14y ago

jmtame 14y ago
The problem with self-learning is one of discipline and motivation. I started a learn-to-code startup and iterated 7 times (now profitable). It's nearly impossible to keep someone engaged without having a human involved. When I think back to how I learned to program, it wasn't alone. I surrounded myself with CS students. And I had a lot of intrinsic motivation before I started. Join a program like Dev Bootcamp. You'll save an enormous amount of time by working alongside other people with similar goals, and the social pressure will keep you on your toes.
- aik 14y ago
  Have you been through Dev Bootcamp? Did you find it immensely useful? Did it help with getting hired? I ask because it has quite a large upfront cost... perfectly reasonable if it really is that great.
  - jmtame 14y ago
    I haven't been through as a student, although I know many students would say it was worth it. I've watched two classes graduate, and I'm impressed with the curriculum. 90% of Dev Bootcamp's previous class got offers of $80k/year, compared to a college education where 50% of graduates will be underemployed or jobless. The $12k tuition feels too low if it's certain that you'll get 6x the return in the first year.
    - xiaoma 14y ago
      Is it so certain that banks will give students loans for it? As it is the price just slams the door on me.
  - lachyg 14y ago
    Disclaimer: I advise Dev Bootcamp. Here are three student reflections on Dev Bootcamp: - http://douglascalhoun.tumblr.com/post/26059106238/beautiful-friend-the-end http://douglascalhoun.tumblr.com/post/26059106238/beautiful-... - http://newbietoruby.wordpress.com/2012/03/30/devbootcamp-reflection/ http://newbietoruby.wordpress.com/2012/03/30/devbootcamp-ref... - http://mehulkar.tumblr.com/post/18897643140/devbootcamp-testimonial http://mehulkar.tumblr.com/post/18897643140/devbootcamp-test... And here is a Quora thread with a lot of relevant responses: http://www.quora.com/Ruby-on-Rails/Should-I-quit-my-job-and-go-to-Dev-Bootcamp http://www.quora.com/Ruby-on-Rails/Should-I-quit-my-job-and-.... Please feel free to ask any other questions!
    - wilfra 14y ago
      I have a question: I've tried to learn Ruby and don't think it is for me. Too hard to deal with setting up my environment and the language just does not come easily to me. Can you recommend a program like yours that is of very high quality that focuses on Python, JavaScript (possibly with HTML/CSS) or Objective-C?
      - jyu 14y ago
        What problems did you have with the Ruby environment? I went through this several months ago, and maybe can help you get set up, if you're still interested in Ruby.
        wilfra 14y ago
        Couldn't get passed running rvm in my terminal on OS X =/
        nanijoe 14y ago
        ...then don't use rvm..there is a version of ruby that comes pre-installed on your Mac, use it. Get one ruby book and read through it, don't worry if you don't understand everything the first time, by the second time you read it, things will make more sense. Also work through the examples in the book.
meritt 14y ago
While I absolutely applaud the effort and tenacity of this individual, at the same time, I feel a substantial amount of trepidation regarding the current state of the tech / start-up industry. Virtually every hot new startup I see on blogs, it just takes a few minutes of basic penetration testing to find gaping security holes. Everything from simple XSS or CSRF to blatant leaking of sensitive user data. Obviously he was hired at a "junior" level but I've interviewed plenty of "senior" candidates who, 5 years ago, would have been "junior" with their skillset and this guy would probably be a coffee-fetching intern. We keep lowering the bar (due to the crazy imbalance of talent vs. jobs right now) in hiring practices and the long-term impact of this practice has me worried. On the flip-side, seeing all of these amazing ideas being brought to life and fostering such a strong sense of innovation is amazing to see.
- jeffreybaird 14y ago
  When I was hired it was with the very clear understanding that I was to be taught a lot and I was being hired for my desire to learn. Sometimes if you can't find a qualified candidate you have to train them.
  - drgath 14y ago
    You have a great attitude. Reminds me of my start as well ~10 years ago, and now I work on a project that 700+ million people use / month. I think curiosity is the best skill a developer can have, because with it, they can learn just about anything else they need to. Congrats and good luck!
  - wyclif 14y ago
    Yes, and that "have to train them" is the truth that's missing from a lot of these conversations: all these startups want "rock star" devs but they don't want to invest anything in training. But no matter what the skill level of your devs, companies should be investing in lots of training anyway to stay competitive.
    - TDL 14y ago
      This is a more pervasive problem than just the tech industry. Many industries in the U.S. have limited to no training and no mentor programs. Training is perceived as an easy cost to eliminate.
InfinityX0 14y ago
Great to see that. There's plenty of "you should learn how to code" posts, Codecademy, Treehouse etc, but there are very few case studies of people who seemingly A) used these tools and/or B) actually ended up being able to wing it learning to code mid-to-late-stage in their career. Not sure if this post really qualifies as either of those, as well. If there's more examples of this that I'm missing, please let me know.
- alanning 14y ago
  Not really a case study but my sister went from never having coded, middle-school math teacher to junior consultant at ThoughtWorks in 5 months via DevBootCamp. TW may be a bit unusual though in that they are willing to train you for a year before actually making money on you.
  - ktsmith 14y ago
    Our industry needs a lot more of this. Many industries expect that new hires are in apprenticeship mode and will be learning on the job. In our industry people are expected to walk in and know exactly what and how to do things.
    - wonnage 14y ago
      I don't think that's true at all - every organization I've worked with has planned for a 1-2 month ramp-up program. Generally you start off doing trivial bugfixes until the codebase makes sense and move on from there. Hell, learning on the job extends past this phase and is essentially neverending. You just need to have enough background to make it through the ramp-up phase and start teaching yourself. That holds true whether you went to college or are self-taught.
      - ktsmith 14y ago
        1-2 months is still nothing compared to other skilled professions.
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commanderkeen08 14y ago
Just a heads up, that fixed position element makes for a verrry annoying mobile experience, especially when someone taps to zoom in. This is probably the most common source of my frustration with the mobile web--those annoying social share sidebars that are position-fixed are the primary perpetrators. I noticed you're using onswipe though which helps, but if someone is using some third party Hacker News reader, onswipe won't load. Having derailed this thread enough, I love everything about this. Ill never get enough of hearing people's success stories.
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the_cat_kittles 14y ago
You really did a great job! I took longer than you, but I followed a similar path. In hindsight, I can't imagine taking any other path, its been a blast! If I could emphasize one of your points, it would be to MAKE stuff, don't pick out problems out of thin air, MAKE stuff you want! I really happy for you, and I'm really glad you wrote this. I haven't agreed with someone so much in a while! Also, I would reinforce your point about git and github, that is as absolute must in my experience. It is your resume and one of your main tools. Edit: Dont forget about IRC!!!!
- slurgfest 14y ago
  Genuine question: what does IRC do for getting a job other than taking up time?
  - supo 14y ago
    I've been using IRC to talk to people who built some of the tools my company uses in our technology stack. This has been an amazing opportunity and a learning experience. You also learn a lot when you hang around and help more novice users with their questions. I'd say if you don't start talking OT in a IRC channel dedicated to a piece of software/tech, it has a direct positive influence on your skills, which in turn directly influences your job seeking chances. Also, you can meet prospective employers that way.
  - the_cat_kittles 14y ago
    the python channel was incredibly useful when I repeatedly missed no brainer things when i was first starting out. Any library's irc will probably have at least one person who knows the library inside and out, and can help you with a problem. It's really incredible you can do all this for free!
- santa_boy 14y ago
  I would also reinforce the github point. It is as important a point especially when you are working on a start-up idea alongside a regular day-job. Git pushes really give an indication the progress, skills, "actual work" and ideas to re-prioritize or launch. Sorry if it sounds obvious but I really feel in a resource crunched situation the best one can do is to push out as much as possible to git and take them further to push to the real world to get some real feedback! Back to the topic .... if the start-up doesn't stick on ... surely it can get a great job with a great employee!
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xelfer 14y ago
Site (is/was) dead, google cache version: http://tinyurl.com/cqojywn http://tinyurl.com/cqojywn
jeffreybaird 14y ago
And since my blog has never had more than 5 people on it at a time... it crashed.
- chime 14y ago
  Funny seeing Aubrey & Gavin mentioned on an HN post. Both are great guys and also attend the iOS meetups here in Tampa. You're welcome to join too. We're meeting Aug 30th next: http://www.meetup.com/Suncoast-iOS/events/77862782/ http://www.meetup.com/Suncoast-iOS/events/77862782/ Gavin actually talked about you in one of the past meetups, saying how he knows one smart-cookie from his Ruby group who taught himself coding over a few months and got a job through sheer persistence. He mentioned being impressed by the progress in your code at day 1 vs day 30 vs day 90. Great to see you're sharing your lessons here.
- zaptheimpaler 14y ago
  Great job! Anyways, the site isn't completely dead,it just takes a few tries to get it to load.
- n0code 14y ago
  Might want to consider octopress since you're a fan of ruby. :)
duked 14y ago
I don't mean to be a mood killer but that has to be taken with a grain of salt. Ruby/Python/Perl are awesome language for beginner because it abstract so much that they think they know how to code after a day, and when they have to learn a new language like C they are completely lost and produce spaghetti code. That might be ok for web development where you can hack here and there (with JS/CSS/HTML) but I really challenge someone that follows that guide to be a embedded device developer or a software engineer using C or even C# or Java. Anyway good read but again it should be really emphasize that this is an ok road for a web developer.
- jeffreybaird 14y ago
  Totally want to learn C, but I wouldn't even have thought to try if I hadn't tried ruby first. I got my first look at C digging through the Ruby source code, trying to figure out how it implemented Array.sort. Ruby opened me up to the world of programming and I look forward to exploring the rest!
  - duked 14y ago
    If you're looking at how ruby implemented Array.sort you are definitely on the right track ! I'm not sure that's how all people who started with Ruby/Python are evolving but that's good. However I'm not too comfortable trying to lure people to believe that you can write a web client in 2 lines :/ PS: Got downvoted for making a usefull comment ? Seriously guys you can't give a different opinion than the crowd...
    - wtracy 14y ago
      I upvoted you. :-) OT: Up until maybe two months ago, the moderation on my posts might not have always been what I wanted, but it at least consistently made sense. Since then, moderation has gotten increasingly erratic. Yay Eternal September?
      - duked 14y ago
        Thanks ! I just want to feel free to express an opinion that is not mean but is a change from: "great post, that's the way to go !"
evoxed 14y ago
My first thought reading through was "heh, but now that I'm in NYC... I wonder what my chances are..." and then bam... there ya go! I'm glad to see stuff like this, and totally agree with the points– especially the whole git-like-a-boss bit.
wilfra 14y ago
"In February 2012 I had never written a line of code. But, as of July 11, 2012 I am employed as a full-time Ruby Developer. You can do it too." Best. Quote. Ever. I am re-motivated to continue learning programming. Nice work sir. Congrats.
- reubenpressman 14y ago
  Awesome!!!
eswangren 14y ago
Yay, that's exactly what our industry needs; more cargo cult programmers writing terrible software! Let's just be glad that this RoR guy isn't building anything safety critical.
- jeffreybaird 14y ago
  Either you didn't read the article or you missed the point.
  - zalew 14y ago
    elaborate the point then.
    - jeffreybaird 14y ago
      TLDR If you work your ass off you can get a job doing what you love in a relatively short amount of time. I wasn't claiming that I am an awesome programmer but I got good enough to put myself into a position where I could learn from awesome programmers, on the job, while getting paid.
      - gruseom 14y ago
        Bravo, and if you keep working your ass off you will be an awesome programmer. I did the same thing, by the way, though it was ages ago, so no Github or anything like that. The only thing I'd change, looking back, is that having got that first job I allowed myself to get stuck. I was doing one kind of work using one set of tools and even though I got good at it and made money at it, it constrained me mentally. A lot of programmers fall into this trap. It's insidious because you don't know you've fallen into it. Something ends up having to shock you out of it and that is not a good place to be. Perhaps if I had studied CS I would have started out with a broader sense of the field. In the end it took quite an effort to maneuver my boat into larger (and deeper) streams.
      - zalew 14y ago
        ok then. I guess the party pooper comments come from a different view on what is learning to program, and that different view comes from a different experience. Many people forget that today self-learning is much easier than, say, 12 years ago; yet knowing theory on 'how stuff works' is no less important than back then. Good luck on your job.
fscof 14y ago
Really awesome to see a self-taught success story like this. Love the dedication Jeff! A side point of advice for anyone wanting to learn programming and still in college: DEFINITELY take an introductory programming class. There's endless amounts you can learn online, but learning the fundamentals through languages like C and Scheme gives you great perspective when you do pick up web code.
johnnymonster 14y ago
Might help credibility if his site wasnt down... http://imgur.com/fhK0M http://imgur.com/fhK0M
- drgath 14y ago
  I'm guessing my blog couldn't handle front-page HN traffic either. Yeah, it's easy enough to fix and I can think of a dozen different ways to do it in under an hour, but as the OP said in another comment, the site gets so little traffic it was never a concern. Same with mine. Ironic? Yes. Damages credibility? Nope.
  - johnnymonster 14y ago
    i'm one to talk, mine probably couldn't handle it either...
technotony 14y ago
It's really frustrating reading all the negative comments here. What happened to positive support for people in our community? This guy had a passion, worked his butt off and got a good result... I'm sure he'll go on to many more good things in the future. We should applaud and celebrate this, not knock down how he's not a senior developer yet. Congratulations Jeff!!
- borplk 14y ago
  It is great to see these posts and I absolutely applaud him for what he has achieved. Programming, like any other profession takes time to master, how would you react to "How to become a brain surgeon in less than 6 months"? If you were to have a brain surgery would you choose the guy who was unemployed 6 months ago, or the other one who has been performing these surgeries for the last 20 years, every day? My point, comparing the two, is to highlight that both of these professions affect us, one a bit more dramatically than the other. If every medical student got to be a brain surgeon in less than 6 months we would have many more tragic accidents costing lives or making someone permanently disabled but there are many barriers in front of them that prevents this kind of thing and gives the patient some confidence. I argue that there should be something similar in place in the field of development/programming. In the same way that I would prefer the more experienced surgeon, I'd prefer the websites I use to be programmed by more experienced programmers, how about the cars we use? the airplanes?
  - Nathandim 14y ago
    It's perfectly fine for a company to ask for a developer with more years of experience. However, the post mentions a junior developer position, which means they do not expect him to know things that developers with 20+ years experience (according to your surgeon example) do.
  - mmcnickle 14y ago
    The comparison you draw is intellectually dishonest. Many of the articles submitted to HN that frame programming as a craft get a lot of support. And just as traditional crafts are taught through apprenticeships, I believe that the same holds true for programming. Software shops can easily find a place for enthusiastic candidates with aptitude and commitment (as demonstrated by the OP). There are plenty of tasks that the new apprentice could help with until fully trained. This is how bricklayers (a fairer comparison than brain surgeon, you'll agree) are trained, and you don't see many houses falling down.
zampano 14y ago
This is great motivation. I've been doing much the same as you, just over a longer period of time, but I've been a little too intimidated to put myself out there so to speak. It is great to know others are getting results in return for their determination.
invdevm 14y ago
Thanks Jeff for such an inspirational article.
cwp 14y ago
Awesome write up; thanks for sharing. I'm a self-taught developer too, although it took me more than 6 months to get my first job. One technique I'd add to your list is, "Find online programming communities and take part in them." I learned an incredible amount from development-oriented mailing lists over the years, and I still do.
mattdeboard 14y ago
I got some of these same bitter, angry, defensive responses when I posted my "how I became a developer" post a while back. I dunno what it is about programmers here but for some reason "programmer" is considered some sacred title you have to earn. Whatever.
- seiji 14y ago
  I wouldn't be happy with someone who only built LEGO bridges running around calling themselves an engineer. A lot of it seems to be ego. People want the shortest path to claiming a title. Ignore silly titles and categorizations. Just make good art.
  - kamjam 14y ago
    If you read past the title you'll notice that the guy got a job as a JUNIOR developer. The email he sent out was looking for an internship/apprenticeship/junior programming position open in the area. Doesn't look like he is trying to run before he can walk...
- reinhardt 14y ago
  Right on! The nerve of some programmers to think their profession is in the same league with the big boys that need college and university degrees! Who do they think they are, some kind of scientists or engineers? </sarcasm>
  - illumen 14y ago
    It doesn't. It shouldn't. Our profession has progressed past that medieval method of instruction.
  - kamjam 14y ago
    I know plenty of programmers without degrees, I was extremely surprised some of them didn't because they were so bloody good! The thing is with having an IT degree, this industry moves so quick how much of what you learnt is still relevant (aside from the OO and SQL)... You have to be CONSTANTLY re-learning new tech otherwise you're not going to be a very good/relevant programmer for long!
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usea 14y ago
Jeff, not to criticize but your site is near-unreadable to me (Windows 7, both in Chrome and Opera). Here is an image: http://i.imgur.com/4wXrQ.png http://i.imgur.com/4wXrQ.png The text is too light at #666 on a white background, which is pretty light on windows (although chrome renders it a bit thicker, it's still pretty light). Also it would look much better if I didn't have Adobe Caslon Pro, as Cambria is pretty normal. I loved the content.
orangethirty 14y ago
In six months you did more than other hackers I know do in a year. In code, time is relative to effort/motivation. You have both, work will gravitate to you. Now, wait until you start contracting, and find your inbox full of work after posting a for hire ad in HN. Crazy. To give you some perspective of the relativity of effort/motivation, I know people who have been "learning" for years who just don't sit down and push through. Sure, like others say, your code will have security holes the size of the titanic, but you are still learning. And learning is about finding out what doesnt work. Good luck, and keep hacking.
TheCowboy 14y ago
I should probably do a write-up about how a year later I still do not have a job doing development. Jeff touches on a few things I am pretty sure I would do differently. I think the most important thing is working on visible projects and seeing them through to completion, as opposed to acquiring more depth through study. Additionally, I would have went with Ruby instead of Python. Python jobs and internships seem to fall more within an area where people demand a CS degree background, at least in this region. With RoR the demand tilts heavily toward webdev, which doesn't require 4 years of CS to be productive. I definitely still think it's possible for motivated and tech-savvy people to do what Jeff has done.
- hackerbob 14y ago
  I'm debating whether to learn Python or Ruby. And the initial post as well as this one has me leaning towards Ruby despite all the good things that have been said about Python. Are there non CS majors out there that picked up Python as a first language and had doors opened for them?
  - Wilduck 14y ago
    I majored in Economics and taught myself Python starting my Sophomore year of college. I am now gainfully employed in a job creating modeles (economic and otherwise, essentially R&D) for the rail industry. My day to day activities consists of writing Python code, and my ability to rapidly prototype ideas with Python was one of the major reasons I was hired. That being said, don't debate, just pick one and go with it. For every person who tells you that Ruby is better at X, or Python is better at Y, you'll find another person doing X in Python or Y in Ruby. The best advice I can give you is to find a book/tutorial that works with your learning style and go for it. Then grab a fun project as soon as possible and work on it.
    - TheCowboy 14y ago
      If one is starting to learn on their own in their 2nd or 3rd year in college, I think Python is definitely a good place to start. You will have more doors still open to you as a college student as far as internships go. I also think people who are still in college might as well take the intro classes so they can take the more advanced data structures and algorithms classes, in addition to extra maths. It's also good to be around other people who are studying CS while in university. The networking benefits shouldn't be underestimated. And making friends with people who are also passionate about the topic is great for many other reasons.
xiaoma 14y ago
It's really too bad that there isn't more newbie-friendly friendly stuff going on in the SF ruby meet-ups. One of the first things I did upon moving here a few months ago was to join the group and look for anything aimed at learners. Unfortunately in 3 months and dozens of emails from the meetup group, I haven't seen a single event where men welcome (without a woman bringing them). In this city, at least, it's probably a better idea to spend more time on your own learning. Some of the resources on the OP's list are great. Learn to Program was something I went through before moving out at it was a good intro. Also, Code School is good if you can spare the cash. Coursera has been fantastic-- it's completely free and has full videos, graded tests and forums. Once you do have somewhat more of a foundation, then the normal meetups start getting more useful-- hack nights, pair programming nights, lightning talks, etc. One thing I have to say though, is that I met some extremely friendly and welcoming people early on when I went to meetups and had no idea what the heck everyone else was talking about.
- gkop 14y ago
  The SF Ruby list reaches several thousand people. I organize free weekly Ruby classes but don't blast SF Ruby for fear of being quickly overwhelmed. I emailed you with details.
mvillena3 14y ago
Nice read man. I just started learning programming as well in early January of this year. 6 months ago, I never thought I would see myself working in a top HCII program as a research programmer. I'm sometimes in total disbelief of where I'm working at and also of the fact that I'm actually helping my professor. "When I started this search I thought I would be scrubbing toilets in exchange for nightly code reviews." That was definitely my train of thought on my value as well, but I guess I underestimated myself as well.
shousper 14y ago
Wow.. so I really could have landed a programming job when I was 13? Damn. Maybe I should have just believed in myself more like this guy. I shudder to think of the quality of his code and the projects he or people like him are let loose on. Awesome that he's passionate and landed something, but underneath it just makes me cringe because I see the shithouse quality of work that comes out of people probably equally skilled, but not as passionate, everyday. I should move to America..
- elliottcarlson 14y ago
  "I see the shithouse quality of work that comes out of people probably equally skilled, but not as passionate, everyday" Passion makes one want to learn more, and constantly improve. People who love what they do will listen to others advice and are able to be molded in to a great developer. Without that passion, you are just doing your job - and when it is "just" a job, then you aren't giving it your 100%. Maybe blame the "shithouse" quality of work on the person, and not their background. Additionally - take the time to correct those people and guide them. If you are that experienced, become a mentor instead of a critic.
  - shousper 14y ago
    You're right, my response was probably a little angsty. There are some that are willing to expand and learn more and they usually turn out to be awesome developers with innovative ideas all the time. I was probably more referring to the "job" types, who don't care for what you might have to teach them and they just wind up getting in your way =\ Hopefully the future will hold more career type developers in my sector, but we'll have to wait and see =)
samspot 14y ago
Self-taught programmers get a bad rap because we've all seen the guy who didn't know about arrays and defined 300 variables (I'm not kidding by the way, and this was in perl. Full of wonderful names like $aa1, $aa2, etc.). However you can get around this by having the OP's attitude about being a life-long learner. It's important to get a lot of exposure to different people and styles to offset some of the lack of background you will start out with.
- slurgfest 14y ago
  Self-taught programmers get a bad rap for multiple reasons; because people with degrees want to protect their market value and ego, because programmers have a tendency to act very competitively and arrogantly toward other programmers, and because the industry's business culture is so absolutely intolerant of perceived weakness and negativity. There are hardly any companies which did not decide that they require 'A players' which means not having a single apparent dent or scratch anywhere in your record, regardless of what ability you have manifested. Basically, this is a hostile industry and being self-taught is blood in the water, a lot like being female (this needn't be explicit sexism, just a prevailing macho culture where if you seem weak in any way you don't belong). Nothing I have said affects the ability of a life-long learner to have fun and do good work in any way. Getting respect and getting paid are another issue.
  - sp4rki 14y ago
    I agree completely. But I think that both subsets, the degree laden and the "no degrees allowed" crowd both apply the same labeling towards one another. Get's to a point where no one who's hiring for a worthwhile company cares about computer science degrees and cares more about exposure, references, and past experience. I think the industry is becoming more hostile towards both, no degree and degree types all the same. It's hostile towards anyone that hasn't proven they're worth their weight in gold either because of their github account or their past work experience. And that my friend a good thing.
    - slurgfest 14y ago
codyko 14y ago
This was an incredible read. The guy deserves it. Congrats Jeff!
troels 14y ago
Work your ass off (...) So, in order to make the kind of strides I made, expect to spend at least 10 hours a day, six days a week dedicated to programming activities. Important point is that you have to love those 10 hours. I'm pretty sure that if you do it just with the end goal in mind, it won't work. You mention this, but I think it could be emphasised.
- bored 14y ago
  Agree. I've been there. Those need to be 10 hours you planned on being only 6.
- jeffreybaird 14y ago
  Honestly the six months started as a weekend curiosity, and those ten hours often became twelve or more. Addiction was an understatement.
darklajid 14y ago
I'm interested. My wife currently tries to do exactly this. The article might be encouraging. But I cannot read it due to a big yellow square overlapping the content, so.. useless link for me.
steilpass 14y ago
"Work hard, write a lot of code, be transparent and be enthusiastic." Sums it up for many industries. Just replace code with something valuable in your profession.
zupatol 14y ago
I'm an unemployed programmer with 10 years of experience and I've been looking for a (part-time) job for less than six months. I keep telling myself it would be great if instead of looking for a job I could spend all that time just coding. I have plenty of ideas. I've avoided that because it feels like running away from my responsibilities, but this post makes me think again. On the other hand the situation seems to be more difficult where I live (Geneva, Switzerland). I've always been so enthusiastic about programming that I want to encourage everyone to learn it, but today it sounds like bad career advice around here.
- philhippus 14y ago
  You can always sign up to odesk and/or vworker and pick up some paid coding tasks there. You might even end up working full time (I have).
  - zupatol 14y ago
    I've been thinking about odesk, but didn't know vworker. Good to know it can work, thanks.
vtemian 14y ago
Awesome!!! Congratz and good luck!
jlarocco 14y ago
Seeing a self-taught guy with 6 months coding experience writing software at a medical lab testing facility makes me a bit nervous. The need for proper security in that area is (IMO) even more important than for credit card and financial processing, and I just don't trust a guy with only 6 months experience to do it correctly. Nothing against him, but I think it's too complicated of a subject to learn in 6 months with no real world experience.
- debacle 14y ago
  I almost completely disagree. I've mentored guys who were greener than grass who grasped things like input sanitation intuitively. I've also worked with guys with 5+ years experience who thought this: $foo = $_GET['foo'] Was input sanitation. I would posit that, because of the vastly different quality needs, understandings, and valuations inherent in the industries that our industry touches (namely, all of them), it's unlikely that you're going to see any strong correlation between age/experience and code quality.
- giulianob 14y ago
  It's a junior level position. They aren't going to expect the guy to architect their solution. He's probably going to start doing some of the easier tasks.
RutZap 14y ago
This is a nice story but there are some hidden issues around here. The ones that want to get into programming should be aware of these: It's not an easy trip.. it's not just six months... it's a lifetime. Yes you might get a job in 6 months but then you will have to work even harder to keep that job and to be in the game. You will never stop learning... you will have to constantly adapt yourself to the new technologies otherwise you will end up being the guy hated by everyone for your crappy code that's a pain to be maintained. Yes you might learn Ruby or any other programming language and you can solve problems and build stuff... so basically you can do your job.... but there's more to programming. You should not just read a ruby book and learn the syntax and hey presto you are a developer. You should put some time in learning how software works, learning some algorithms and so on. It's not about one programming language, it's about programming in general. Programming languages are just tools we use to achieve a goal. For example, you can't be a car mechanic by learning how to use a wrench.. you need to know how to use more tools and, the most important thing, learn how to fix an issue using the most appropriate tool.
- Swizec 14y ago
  To be honest, I think this is true for every profession, not just programming. If you want to stay on top, you have to continually improve your game. Or you can be that guy in the corner who got left behind when the factory tanked and he suddenly found himself unemployable.
  - RutZap 14y ago
    Yes this is true for every profession... but in programming it seems to be a more crucial thing as the programming world is changing and evolving faster than any other industry.. just think about what programmers used to do 10 years ago .. and what we do now... think how computers change in 10 years... (my mobile phone is smarter/faster than my state of the art PC from 10 years ago) The progression rate is astonishing and we must not forget that we still have to learn the basics in order to be good at what we do...
    - chucknelson 14y ago
slurgfest 14y ago
If you are a new graduate. If you are not a new graduate, and especially if you don't look so young, you are definitely not going to have such an easy time, without good connections. Take internships while you are in college, if you can
zxcvb 14y ago
He's a Ruby programmer.... LOL... says it all.
delinka 14y ago
Mentally add: "...if you've never coded/been a developer/have no prior experience." I came here wondering in what job market a developer has to wait six months to find a job. Oh, no experience. I see.
MengYuanLong 14y ago
I'm unable to access the article but I'm very surprised by many of the comments in this thread. A large number of articles are posted each month belittling (at the very least questioning the value) of non-technical founders. These and similar posts are then filled with sermons advocating individuals learn to code. Apparently, OP took these statements to heart, put in the effort/time, and what does he get as a result? Derision. What is this community about if it isn't about personal and financial growth coupled with creation? Perhaps in his post, OP makes some grandiose claim about being a master programmer, okay fine, cut him down. But I suspect it is far less egotistical and merely his way of celebrating a small victory brought about by what is so often advocated: That learning to code really is a way to improve your life.
wr1472 14y ago
tldr; there's no secret sauce; just work hard. Applies to other professions too. edit: Congrats to the author, and refreshing to see someone document, the effort involved as opposed to some "clever hack" of the system.
kmfrk 14y ago
Can anyone outside the U.S. - preferably in Europe - share similar stories, if any? I find that the U.S. has so many cool ways to work your way into a programming gig, it makes anyone outside red with envy, but I struggle to find something similar in Europe - especially in smaller countries. What would your advice be for us who can't get a U.S. visa? EDIT: I'm thinking mainly of Python/Django jobs and communities here.
- dagw 14y ago
  The big advantage with the US in this case is that it is often cheap and easy to fire someone. This makes companies much more likely to take a chance on someone, since they know they can get quickly rid of them if it doesn't work out.
  - nandemo 14y ago
    That's true but it's not the only reason. Note that there's still a social cost to firing people. I believe another major reason is that software companies in the US are in average more profitable and more productive than in other countries.
giZm0 14y ago
One of the biggest problem in the industry is that there are to many bad programmers! The sad thing is that these kind of people spam all the employers, which make it a lot harder to filter out the good from the bad. On the other hand their work tend to give all the rest of the us work when they just hit the wall with something hard.
IceyEC 14y ago
This was a great read first thing in the morning! Thanks Jeff for your enthusiasm!
jeffreybaird 14y ago
So, there have been a lot of negative comments and I understand where they are coming from. I will try to address them as best I can. "Seeing a self-taught guy with 6 months coding experience writing software at a medical lab testing facility makes me a bit nervous." I am working mostly on internal systems and when I venture outside of that I have my own branch write thorough tests and have multiple people check my code. "I shudder to think of the quality of his code and the projects he or people like him are let loose on." My code is pretty shitty. But, I know how bad it is, I know my limitations. I work long days and more after work to improve. I am not pretending, I am learning. "Very fancy, but I am a software engineer, or programmer, as you prefer it to be called. Engineer means that I studied 5 years at university (Bs + Ms), and I know what I have learnt there, and I wouldn’t want to work with someone that doesn’t know about algorithms, algebra (it helps you understand a lot of things and opens your minid), compilers, statistics, concurrent programming, software architecture (1 full year course), UI designing, networks, databases, etc, etc." I disagree that amount of time in a University is what allows one to become a programmer, it is the skills and knowledge acquired at the school. I didn't have that option, I needed a job in under six months or I was going to have to get a job doing something I didn't love. I worked hard and got the job. Am I a master? Nope. But, I have put myself in a position to become one with continued hard work. I think that is all of them. Many people glossed over this line, "When I started this search I thought I would be scrubbing toilets in exchange for nightly code reviews." The fact that I am not doing that is a mixture of my willingness to clean toilets to learn the craft I love and a market desperation for developers.
- mattdeboard 14y ago
  If you're like me those kinds of comments probably gnawed at you. Don't let it. In a few years you'll have achieved parity in terms of salary and respect to most of these surly commenters, and no one will give a shit about your "origin story". Your work will speak for itself. To all the negative nancies, take it up with Dr. Norvig. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3278080 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3278080
- LnxPrgr3 14y ago
  I too am largely self-taught, though I took a much more convoluted path to get where I am today. I lucked out several years ago and found an employer willing to take a chance on me in spite of zero real-world experience and incomplete schooling. It seems to have worked out pretty well so far! You know you're still green, and I respect that. Everyone has to be at some point. I don't care if they went to school—I've seen people come out of respectable CS programs not knowing a damn thing about actually writing software. I've also seen people with plenty of experience—people who should really know better by now—still code trivially avoidable vulnerabilities and make other silly mistakes. School and experience are both lost on someone not really willing to take learning seriously, who already believes he's an expert.
codegeek 14y ago
"I like to learn; I like to teach; I kill two birds." I like this tagline on the blog. Congratulations Jeff. Yes there are naysayers and there is always an argument against something. But we applaud your efforts. For people who are criticizing this, just look at it this way. This guy pulled off something by working his ass of (in his own words). The creates hope and inspiration for others like him and I am sure there are plenty even among HN.
supernayan1 14y ago
Get hired sooner. Audax Health is hiring in SF & DC. Work in a fun and entrepreneurial environment where dress is casual and flip-flops are encouraged. We provide the best tools such as brand new Apple computers for every employee. Collaborate daily with top talent from companies like Zynga, WebMD, Microsoft, Bloomberg, Booz Allen Hamilton, and XM. Your contributions will directly impact the way millions of people interact with healthcare. What makes our office fun: • Our super swanky waterfront office space in Washington D.C. • Top of the line Apple products • Couches, ping pong, foosball, air hockey, arcade basketball shooter, Xbox and TVs • A kitchen filled with scrumptious food, snacks and beverages Contact nayan.jain [at] audaxhealth.com
juddlyon 14y ago
I applaud your ambition and intitiative. Many experienced programmers should take note of how you socialized with other human beings (multiple times!) to get the gig. Enthusiasm is underrated.
joshlegs 14y ago
I wholeheartedly agree with you. I have been learning code about a year and now I have a part time job doing it. The key thing is to demonstrate aptitude. Period. You obviously have done this. Also, eagerness to learn is a huge huge selling point -- because apparently you do that throughout your programming career. But the biggest thing is to demonstrate an ability to code. You might not know everything a university graduate does, but then again, I hear a lot of the people coming out of university aren't very good programmers right now. =\ Not really sure. University teaches you a lot of foundational stuff, but if you have someone willing to work with you a little, you'll learn the same stuff (and likely already have a little of it under your belt). Anyway, kudos to you for sticking it out and being aggressive. Great example.
robomartin 14y ago
While I value a college education I have to say that a college degree is not a guarantee of performance at all. A programmer, in my opinion, must have some College exposure. The OP does, as he says he graduated with a business degree. Aside from that, programming is a multi-faceted and ever-evolving discipline. We are always learning new things. A proven ability to approach something new and learn it is at the top of my list. He certainly proved that part. I come to this from the perspective that virtually nothing I do today existed when I was in college. This goes for programming languages and even hardware design areas such as FPGA's. I, as an engineer, have to learn constantly. That aspect of my profession never stopped and, in fact, intensified after leaving college as there's so much to learn. How is a college grad going to react to a paradigm shift such as what happened as the internet started to take roots? It was the wild west for several years as new ideas popped-up and you had to either play or get off the train. I'll take someone really smart who has the tenacity, drive and interest to learn new things quickly over a degreed engineer who is slow to react. I have known many engineers who have remained stagnant over the years because they simply didn't want to bother to learn new things or were far too comfortable doing what they were doing. Some of these guys are unemployed today. Their skill set simply doesn't match todays reality and a degree means exactly nothing. Now, to be sure, the combination of good, solid schooling and drive, tenacity and a rabid interest to constantly learn can be a very powerful thing. In my experience that person is more the exception than the rule. A lot of college grads just want to find a train to ride as long as they can with the skill set they acquired. The self-driven individual who wants to own a topic today and then another topic tomorrow is very rare. Oh, yes, and a lot of college grads write code that is as shitty as anyone else's. There is no monopoly on the ability to write horrible code due to the lack of experience.
pearcerw 14y ago
I was lucky enough to give a little talk at BarCampCharleston, in Charleston, SC, last year. I spoke on the same topic, but from a less generic standpoint (focus was on Rails): https://railsneedtoknow.heroku.com https://railsneedtoknow.heroku.com It's not perfect, but it helped a lot of people :)
afterburner 14y ago
"Push code to github EVERYDAY" Good advice; the title lends itself to initially annoy skeptics (including me), but it does look like you put a lot of effort into this. With that kind of sustained and public effort it's definitely doable.
jeffreybaird 14y ago
The post has moved, so if you are looking it is here: http://jeffreybaird.github.com/blog/2012/08/21/how-to-get-a-job-as-a-developer-in-less-than-six-months/ http://jeffreybaird.github.com/blog/2012/08/21/how-to-get-a-...

220 points by reubenpressman 14y ago

The problem with self-learning is one of discipline and motivation. I started a learn-to-code startup and iterated 7 times (now profitable). It's nearly impossible to keep someone engaged without having a human involved. When I think back to how I learned to program, it wasn't alone. I surrounded myself with CS students. And I had a lot of intrinsic motivation before I started. Join a program like Dev Bootcamp. You'll save an enormous amount of time by working alongside other people with similar goals, and the social pressure will keep you on your toes.

aik 14y ago
Have you been through Dev Bootcamp? Did you find it immensely useful? Did it help with getting hired? I ask because it has quite a large upfront cost... perfectly reasonable if it really is that great.
- jmtame 14y ago
  I haven't been through as a student, although I know many students would say it was worth it. I've watched two classes graduate, and I'm impressed with the curriculum. 90% of Dev Bootcamp's previous class got offers of $80k/year, compared to a college education where 50% of graduates will be underemployed or jobless. The $12k tuition feels too low if it's certain that you'll get 6x the return in the first year.
  - xiaoma 14y ago
    Is it so certain that banks will give students loans for it? As it is the price just slams the door on me.
- lachyg 14y ago
  Disclaimer: I advise Dev Bootcamp. Here are three student reflections on Dev Bootcamp: - http://douglascalhoun.tumblr.com/post/26059106238/beautiful-friend-the-end http://douglascalhoun.tumblr.com/post/26059106238/beautiful-... - http://newbietoruby.wordpress.com/2012/03/30/devbootcamp-reflection/ http://newbietoruby.wordpress.com/2012/03/30/devbootcamp-ref... - http://mehulkar.tumblr.com/post/18897643140/devbootcamp-testimonial http://mehulkar.tumblr.com/post/18897643140/devbootcamp-test... And here is a Quora thread with a lot of relevant responses: http://www.quora.com/Ruby-on-Rails/Should-I-quit-my-job-and-go-to-Dev-Bootcamp http://www.quora.com/Ruby-on-Rails/Should-I-quit-my-job-and-.... Please feel free to ask any other questions!
  - wilfra 14y ago
    I have a question: I've tried to learn Ruby and don't think it is for me. Too hard to deal with setting up my environment and the language just does not come easily to me. Can you recommend a program like yours that is of very high quality that focuses on Python, JavaScript (possibly with HTML/CSS) or Objective-C?
    - jyu 14y ago
      What problems did you have with the Ruby environment? I went through this several months ago, and maybe can help you get set up, if you're still interested in Ruby.
      - wilfra 14y ago
        Couldn't get passed running rvm in my terminal on OS X =/
        nanijoe 14y ago
        ...then don't use rvm..there is a version of ruby that comes pre-installed on your Mac, use it. Get one ruby book and read through it, don't worry if you don't understand everything the first time, by the second time you read it, things will make more sense. Also work through the examples in the book.

meritt 14y ago

While I absolutely applaud the effort and tenacity of this individual, at the same time, I feel a substantial amount of trepidation regarding the current state of the tech / start-up industry. Virtually every hot new startup I see on blogs, it just takes a few minutes of basic penetration testing to find gaping security holes. Everything from simple XSS or CSRF to blatant leaking of sensitive user data. Obviously he was hired at a "junior" level but I've interviewed plenty of "senior" candidates who, 5 years ago, would have been "junior" with their skillset and this guy would probably be a coffee-fetching intern. We keep lowering the bar (due to the crazy imbalance of talent vs. jobs right now) in hiring practices and the long-term impact of this practice has me worried. On the flip-side, seeing all of these amazing ideas being brought to life and fostering such a strong sense of innovation is amazing to see.

jeffreybaird 14y ago
When I was hired it was with the very clear understanding that I was to be taught a lot and I was being hired for my desire to learn. Sometimes if you can't find a qualified candidate you have to train them.
- drgath 14y ago
  You have a great attitude. Reminds me of my start as well ~10 years ago, and now I work on a project that 700+ million people use / month. I think curiosity is the best skill a developer can have, because with it, they can learn just about anything else they need to. Congrats and good luck!
- wyclif 14y ago
  Yes, and that "have to train them" is the truth that's missing from a lot of these conversations: all these startups want "rock star" devs but they don't want to invest anything in training. But no matter what the skill level of your devs, companies should be investing in lots of training anyway to stay competitive.
  - TDL 14y ago
    This is a more pervasive problem than just the tech industry. Many industries in the U.S. have limited to no training and no mentor programs. Training is perceived as an easy cost to eliminate.

InfinityX0 14y ago

Great to see that. There's plenty of "you should learn how to code" posts, Codecademy, Treehouse etc, but there are very few case studies of people who seemingly A) used these tools and/or B) actually ended up being able to wing it learning to code mid-to-late-stage in their career. Not sure if this post really qualifies as either of those, as well. If there's more examples of this that I'm missing, please let me know.

alanning 14y ago
Not really a case study but my sister went from never having coded, middle-school math teacher to junior consultant at ThoughtWorks in 5 months via DevBootCamp. TW may be a bit unusual though in that they are willing to train you for a year before actually making money on you.
- ktsmith 14y ago
  Our industry needs a lot more of this. Many industries expect that new hires are in apprenticeship mode and will be learning on the job. In our industry people are expected to walk in and know exactly what and how to do things.
  - wonnage 14y ago
    I don't think that's true at all - every organization I've worked with has planned for a 1-2 month ramp-up program. Generally you start off doing trivial bugfixes until the codebase makes sense and move on from there. Hell, learning on the job extends past this phase and is essentially neverending. You just need to have enough background to make it through the ramp-up phase and start teaching yourself. That holds true whether you went to college or are self-taught.
    - ktsmith 14y ago
      1-2 months is still nothing compared to other skilled professions.
- 14y ago

commanderkeen08 14y ago

Just a heads up, that fixed position element makes for a verrry annoying mobile experience, especially when someone taps to zoom in. This is probably the most common source of my frustration with the mobile web--those annoying social share sidebars that are position-fixed are the primary perpetrators. I noticed you're using onswipe though which helps, but if someone is using some third party Hacker News reader, onswipe won't load. Having derailed this thread enough, I love everything about this. Ill never get enough of hearing people's success stories.

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the_cat_kittles 14y ago

You really did a great job! I took longer than you, but I followed a similar path. In hindsight, I can't imagine taking any other path, its been a blast! If I could emphasize one of your points, it would be to MAKE stuff, don't pick out problems out of thin air, MAKE stuff you want! I really happy for you, and I'm really glad you wrote this. I haven't agreed with someone so much in a while! Also, I would reinforce your point about git and github, that is as absolute must in my experience. It is your resume and one of your main tools. Edit: Dont forget about IRC!!!!

slurgfest 14y ago
Genuine question: what does IRC do for getting a job other than taking up time?
- supo 14y ago
  I've been using IRC to talk to people who built some of the tools my company uses in our technology stack. This has been an amazing opportunity and a learning experience. You also learn a lot when you hang around and help more novice users with their questions. I'd say if you don't start talking OT in a IRC channel dedicated to a piece of software/tech, it has a direct positive influence on your skills, which in turn directly influences your job seeking chances. Also, you can meet prospective employers that way.
- the_cat_kittles 14y ago
  the python channel was incredibly useful when I repeatedly missed no brainer things when i was first starting out. Any library's irc will probably have at least one person who knows the library inside and out, and can help you with a problem. It's really incredible you can do all this for free!
santa_boy 14y ago
I would also reinforce the github point. It is as important a point especially when you are working on a start-up idea alongside a regular day-job. Git pushes really give an indication the progress, skills, "actual work" and ideas to re-prioritize or launch. Sorry if it sounds obvious but I really feel in a resource crunched situation the best one can do is to push out as much as possible to git and take them further to push to the real world to get some real feedback! Back to the topic .... if the start-up doesn't stick on ... surely it can get a great job with a great employee!

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xelfer 14y ago

Site (is/was) dead, google cache version: http://tinyurl.com/cqojywn http://tinyurl.com/cqojywn

jeffreybaird 14y ago

And since my blog has never had more than 5 people on it at a time... it crashed.

chime 14y ago
Funny seeing Aubrey & Gavin mentioned on an HN post. Both are great guys and also attend the iOS meetups here in Tampa. You're welcome to join too. We're meeting Aug 30th next: http://www.meetup.com/Suncoast-iOS/events/77862782/ http://www.meetup.com/Suncoast-iOS/events/77862782/ Gavin actually talked about you in one of the past meetups, saying how he knows one smart-cookie from his Ruby group who taught himself coding over a few months and got a job through sheer persistence. He mentioned being impressed by the progress in your code at day 1 vs day 30 vs day 90. Great to see you're sharing your lessons here.
zaptheimpaler 14y ago
Great job! Anyways, the site isn't completely dead,it just takes a few tries to get it to load.
n0code 14y ago
Might want to consider octopress since you're a fan of ruby. :)

duked 14y ago

I don't mean to be a mood killer but that has to be taken with a grain of salt. Ruby/Python/Perl are awesome language for beginner because it abstract so much that they think they know how to code after a day, and when they have to learn a new language like C they are completely lost and produce spaghetti code. That might be ok for web development where you can hack here and there (with JS/CSS/HTML) but I really challenge someone that follows that guide to be a embedded device developer or a software engineer using C or even C# or Java. Anyway good read but again it should be really emphasize that this is an ok road for a web developer.

jeffreybaird 14y ago
Totally want to learn C, but I wouldn't even have thought to try if I hadn't tried ruby first. I got my first look at C digging through the Ruby source code, trying to figure out how it implemented Array.sort. Ruby opened me up to the world of programming and I look forward to exploring the rest!
- duked 14y ago
  If you're looking at how ruby implemented Array.sort you are definitely on the right track ! I'm not sure that's how all people who started with Ruby/Python are evolving but that's good. However I'm not too comfortable trying to lure people to believe that you can write a web client in 2 lines :/ PS: Got downvoted for making a usefull comment ? Seriously guys you can't give a different opinion than the crowd...
  - wtracy 14y ago
    I upvoted you. :-) OT: Up until maybe two months ago, the moderation on my posts might not have always been what I wanted, but it at least consistently made sense. Since then, moderation has gotten increasingly erratic. Yay Eternal September?
    - duked 14y ago
      Thanks ! I just want to feel free to express an opinion that is not mean but is a change from: "great post, that's the way to go !"

evoxed 14y ago

My first thought reading through was "heh, but now that I'm in NYC... I wonder what my chances are..." and then bam... there ya go! I'm glad to see stuff like this, and totally agree with the points– especially the whole git-like-a-boss bit.

wilfra 14y ago

"In February 2012 I had never written a line of code. But, as of July 11, 2012 I am employed as a full-time Ruby Developer. You can do it too." Best. Quote. Ever. I am re-motivated to continue learning programming. Nice work sir. Congrats.

reubenpressman 14y ago
Awesome!!!

eswangren 14y ago

Yay, that's exactly what our industry needs; more cargo cult programmers writing terrible software! Let's just be glad that this RoR guy isn't building anything safety critical.

jeffreybaird 14y ago
Either you didn't read the article or you missed the point.
- zalew 14y ago
  elaborate the point then.
  - jeffreybaird 14y ago
    TLDR If you work your ass off you can get a job doing what you love in a relatively short amount of time. I wasn't claiming that I am an awesome programmer but I got good enough to put myself into a position where I could learn from awesome programmers, on the job, while getting paid.
    - gruseom 14y ago
      Bravo, and if you keep working your ass off you will be an awesome programmer. I did the same thing, by the way, though it was ages ago, so no Github or anything like that. The only thing I'd change, looking back, is that having got that first job I allowed myself to get stuck. I was doing one kind of work using one set of tools and even though I got good at it and made money at it, it constrained me mentally. A lot of programmers fall into this trap. It's insidious because you don't know you've fallen into it. Something ends up having to shock you out of it and that is not a good place to be. Perhaps if I had studied CS I would have started out with a broader sense of the field. In the end it took quite an effort to maneuver my boat into larger (and deeper) streams.
    - zalew 14y ago
      ok then. I guess the party pooper comments come from a different view on what is learning to program, and that different view comes from a different experience. Many people forget that today self-learning is much easier than, say, 12 years ago; yet knowing theory on 'how stuff works' is no less important than back then. Good luck on your job.

fscof 14y ago

Really awesome to see a self-taught success story like this. Love the dedication Jeff! A side point of advice for anyone wanting to learn programming and still in college: DEFINITELY take an introductory programming class. There's endless amounts you can learn online, but learning the fundamentals through languages like C and Scheme gives you great perspective when you do pick up web code.

johnnymonster 14y ago

Might help credibility if his site wasnt down... http://imgur.com/fhK0M http://imgur.com/fhK0M

drgath 14y ago
I'm guessing my blog couldn't handle front-page HN traffic either. Yeah, it's easy enough to fix and I can think of a dozen different ways to do it in under an hour, but as the OP said in another comment, the site gets so little traffic it was never a concern. Same with mine. Ironic? Yes. Damages credibility? Nope.
- johnnymonster 14y ago
  i'm one to talk, mine probably couldn't handle it either...

technotony 14y ago

It's really frustrating reading all the negative comments here. What happened to positive support for people in our community? This guy had a passion, worked his butt off and got a good result... I'm sure he'll go on to many more good things in the future. We should applaud and celebrate this, not knock down how he's not a senior developer yet. Congratulations Jeff!!

borplk 14y ago
It is great to see these posts and I absolutely applaud him for what he has achieved. Programming, like any other profession takes time to master, how would you react to "How to become a brain surgeon in less than 6 months"? If you were to have a brain surgery would you choose the guy who was unemployed 6 months ago, or the other one who has been performing these surgeries for the last 20 years, every day? My point, comparing the two, is to highlight that both of these professions affect us, one a bit more dramatically than the other. If every medical student got to be a brain surgeon in less than 6 months we would have many more tragic accidents costing lives or making someone permanently disabled but there are many barriers in front of them that prevents this kind of thing and gives the patient some confidence. I argue that there should be something similar in place in the field of development/programming. In the same way that I would prefer the more experienced surgeon, I'd prefer the websites I use to be programmed by more experienced programmers, how about the cars we use? the airplanes?
- Nathandim 14y ago
  It's perfectly fine for a company to ask for a developer with more years of experience. However, the post mentions a junior developer position, which means they do not expect him to know things that developers with 20+ years experience (according to your surgeon example) do.
- mmcnickle 14y ago
  The comparison you draw is intellectually dishonest. Many of the articles submitted to HN that frame programming as a craft get a lot of support. And just as traditional crafts are taught through apprenticeships, I believe that the same holds true for programming. Software shops can easily find a place for enthusiastic candidates with aptitude and commitment (as demonstrated by the OP). There are plenty of tasks that the new apprentice could help with until fully trained. This is how bricklayers (a fairer comparison than brain surgeon, you'll agree) are trained, and you don't see many houses falling down.

zampano 14y ago

This is great motivation. I've been doing much the same as you, just over a longer period of time, but I've been a little too intimidated to put myself out there so to speak. It is great to know others are getting results in return for their determination.

invdevm 14y ago

Thanks Jeff for such an inspirational article.

cwp 14y ago

Awesome write up; thanks for sharing. I'm a self-taught developer too, although it took me more than 6 months to get my first job. One technique I'd add to your list is, "Find online programming communities and take part in them." I learned an incredible amount from development-oriented mailing lists over the years, and I still do.

mattdeboard 14y ago

I got some of these same bitter, angry, defensive responses when I posted my "how I became a developer" post a while back. I dunno what it is about programmers here but for some reason "programmer" is considered some sacred title you have to earn. Whatever.

seiji 14y ago
I wouldn't be happy with someone who only built LEGO bridges running around calling themselves an engineer. A lot of it seems to be ego. People want the shortest path to claiming a title. Ignore silly titles and categorizations. Just make good art.
- kamjam 14y ago
  If you read past the title you'll notice that the guy got a job as a JUNIOR developer. The email he sent out was looking for an internship/apprenticeship/junior programming position open in the area. Doesn't look like he is trying to run before he can walk...
reinhardt 14y ago
Right on! The nerve of some programmers to think their profession is in the same league with the big boys that need college and university degrees! Who do they think they are, some kind of scientists or engineers? </sarcasm>
- illumen 14y ago
  It doesn't. It shouldn't. Our profession has progressed past that medieval method of instruction.
- kamjam 14y ago
  I know plenty of programmers without degrees, I was extremely surprised some of them didn't because they were so bloody good! The thing is with having an IT degree, this industry moves so quick how much of what you learnt is still relevant (aside from the OO and SQL)... You have to be CONSTANTLY re-learning new tech otherwise you're not going to be a very good/relevant programmer for long!

deleted 14y ago

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usea 14y ago

Jeff, not to criticize but your site is near-unreadable to me (Windows 7, both in Chrome and Opera). Here is an image: http://i.imgur.com/4wXrQ.png http://i.imgur.com/4wXrQ.png The text is too light at #666 on a white background, which is pretty light on windows (although chrome renders it a bit thicker, it's still pretty light). Also it would look much better if I didn't have Adobe Caslon Pro, as Cambria is pretty normal. I loved the content.

orangethirty 14y ago

In six months you did more than other hackers I know do in a year. In code, time is relative to effort/motivation. You have both, work will gravitate to you. Now, wait until you start contracting, and find your inbox full of work after posting a for hire ad in HN. Crazy. To give you some perspective of the relativity of effort/motivation, I know people who have been "learning" for years who just don't sit down and push through. Sure, like others say, your code will have security holes the size of the titanic, but you are still learning. And learning is about finding out what doesnt work. Good luck, and keep hacking.

TheCowboy 14y ago

I should probably do a write-up about how a year later I still do not have a job doing development. Jeff touches on a few things I am pretty sure I would do differently. I think the most important thing is working on visible projects and seeing them through to completion, as opposed to acquiring more depth through study. Additionally, I would have went with Ruby instead of Python. Python jobs and internships seem to fall more within an area where people demand a CS degree background, at least in this region. With RoR the demand tilts heavily toward webdev, which doesn't require 4 years of CS to be productive. I definitely still think it's possible for motivated and tech-savvy people to do what Jeff has done.

hackerbob 14y ago
I'm debating whether to learn Python or Ruby. And the initial post as well as this one has me leaning towards Ruby despite all the good things that have been said about Python. Are there non CS majors out there that picked up Python as a first language and had doors opened for them?
- Wilduck 14y ago
  I majored in Economics and taught myself Python starting my Sophomore year of college. I am now gainfully employed in a job creating modeles (economic and otherwise, essentially R&D) for the rail industry. My day to day activities consists of writing Python code, and my ability to rapidly prototype ideas with Python was one of the major reasons I was hired. That being said, don't debate, just pick one and go with it. For every person who tells you that Ruby is better at X, or Python is better at Y, you'll find another person doing X in Python or Y in Ruby. The best advice I can give you is to find a book/tutorial that works with your learning style and go for it. Then grab a fun project as soon as possible and work on it.
  - TheCowboy 14y ago
    If one is starting to learn on their own in their 2nd or 3rd year in college, I think Python is definitely a good place to start. You will have more doors still open to you as a college student as far as internships go. I also think people who are still in college might as well take the intro classes so they can take the more advanced data structures and algorithms classes, in addition to extra maths. It's also good to be around other people who are studying CS while in university. The networking benefits shouldn't be underestimated. And making friends with people who are also passionate about the topic is great for many other reasons.

xiaoma 14y ago

It's really too bad that there isn't more newbie-friendly friendly stuff going on in the SF ruby meet-ups. One of the first things I did upon moving here a few months ago was to join the group and look for anything aimed at learners. Unfortunately in 3 months and dozens of emails from the meetup group, I haven't seen a single event where men welcome (without a woman bringing them). In this city, at least, it's probably a better idea to spend more time on your own learning. Some of the resources on the OP's list are great. Learn to Program was something I went through before moving out at it was a good intro. Also, Code School is good if you can spare the cash. Coursera has been fantastic-- it's completely free and has full videos, graded tests and forums. Once you do have somewhat more of a foundation, then the normal meetups start getting more useful-- hack nights, pair programming nights, lightning talks, etc. One thing I have to say though, is that I met some extremely friendly and welcoming people early on when I went to meetups and had no idea what the heck everyone else was talking about.

gkop 14y ago
The SF Ruby list reaches several thousand people. I organize free weekly Ruby classes but don't blast SF Ruby for fear of being quickly overwhelmed. I emailed you with details.

mvillena3 14y ago

Nice read man. I just started learning programming as well in early January of this year. 6 months ago, I never thought I would see myself working in a top HCII program as a research programmer. I'm sometimes in total disbelief of where I'm working at and also of the fact that I'm actually helping my professor. "When I started this search I thought I would be scrubbing toilets in exchange for nightly code reviews." That was definitely my train of thought on my value as well, but I guess I underestimated myself as well.

shousper 14y ago

Wow.. so I really could have landed a programming job when I was 13? Damn. Maybe I should have just believed in myself more like this guy. I shudder to think of the quality of his code and the projects he or people like him are let loose on. Awesome that he's passionate and landed something, but underneath it just makes me cringe because I see the shithouse quality of work that comes out of people probably equally skilled, but not as passionate, everyday. I should move to America..

elliottcarlson 14y ago
"I see the shithouse quality of work that comes out of people probably equally skilled, but not as passionate, everyday" Passion makes one want to learn more, and constantly improve. People who love what they do will listen to others advice and are able to be molded in to a great developer. Without that passion, you are just doing your job - and when it is "just" a job, then you aren't giving it your 100%. Maybe blame the "shithouse" quality of work on the person, and not their background. Additionally - take the time to correct those people and guide them. If you are that experienced, become a mentor instead of a critic.
- shousper 14y ago
  You're right, my response was probably a little angsty. There are some that are willing to expand and learn more and they usually turn out to be awesome developers with innovative ideas all the time. I was probably more referring to the "job" types, who don't care for what you might have to teach them and they just wind up getting in your way =\ Hopefully the future will hold more career type developers in my sector, but we'll have to wait and see =)

samspot 14y ago

Self-taught programmers get a bad rap because we've all seen the guy who didn't know about arrays and defined 300 variables (I'm not kidding by the way, and this was in perl. Full of wonderful names like $aa1, $aa2, etc.). However you can get around this by having the OP's attitude about being a life-long learner. It's important to get a lot of exposure to different people and styles to offset some of the lack of background you will start out with.

slurgfest 14y ago
Self-taught programmers get a bad rap for multiple reasons; because people with degrees want to protect their market value and ego, because programmers have a tendency to act very competitively and arrogantly toward other programmers, and because the industry's business culture is so absolutely intolerant of perceived weakness and negativity. There are hardly any companies which did not decide that they require 'A players' which means not having a single apparent dent or scratch anywhere in your record, regardless of what ability you have manifested. Basically, this is a hostile industry and being self-taught is blood in the water, a lot like being female (this needn't be explicit sexism, just a prevailing macho culture where if you seem weak in any way you don't belong). Nothing I have said affects the ability of a life-long learner to have fun and do good work in any way. Getting respect and getting paid are another issue.
- sp4rki 14y ago
  I agree completely. But I think that both subsets, the degree laden and the "no degrees allowed" crowd both apply the same labeling towards one another. Get's to a point where no one who's hiring for a worthwhile company cares about computer science degrees and cares more about exposure, references, and past experience. I think the industry is becoming more hostile towards both, no degree and degree types all the same. It's hostile towards anyone that hasn't proven they're worth their weight in gold either because of their github account or their past work experience. And that my friend a good thing.
  - slurgfest 14y ago

codyko 14y ago

This was an incredible read. The guy deserves it. Congrats Jeff!

troels 14y ago

Work your ass off (...) So, in order to make the kind of strides I made, expect to spend at least 10 hours a day, six days a week dedicated to programming activities. Important point is that you have to love those 10 hours. I'm pretty sure that if you do it just with the end goal in mind, it won't work. You mention this, but I think it could be emphasised.

bored 14y ago
Agree. I've been there. Those need to be 10 hours you planned on being only 6.
jeffreybaird 14y ago
Honestly the six months started as a weekend curiosity, and those ten hours often became twelve or more. Addiction was an understatement.

darklajid 14y ago

I'm interested. My wife currently tries to do exactly this. The article might be encouraging. But I cannot read it due to a big yellow square overlapping the content, so.. useless link for me.

steilpass 14y ago

"Work hard, write a lot of code, be transparent and be enthusiastic." Sums it up for many industries. Just replace code with something valuable in your profession.

zupatol 14y ago

I'm an unemployed programmer with 10 years of experience and I've been looking for a (part-time) job for less than six months. I keep telling myself it would be great if instead of looking for a job I could spend all that time just coding. I have plenty of ideas. I've avoided that because it feels like running away from my responsibilities, but this post makes me think again. On the other hand the situation seems to be more difficult where I live (Geneva, Switzerland). I've always been so enthusiastic about programming that I want to encourage everyone to learn it, but today it sounds like bad career advice around here.

philhippus 14y ago
You can always sign up to odesk and/or vworker and pick up some paid coding tasks there. You might even end up working full time (I have).
- zupatol 14y ago
  I've been thinking about odesk, but didn't know vworker. Good to know it can work, thanks.

vtemian 14y ago

Awesome!!! Congratz and good luck!

jlarocco 14y ago

Seeing a self-taught guy with 6 months coding experience writing software at a medical lab testing facility makes me a bit nervous. The need for proper security in that area is (IMO) even more important than for credit card and financial processing, and I just don't trust a guy with only 6 months experience to do it correctly. Nothing against him, but I think it's too complicated of a subject to learn in 6 months with no real world experience.

debacle 14y ago
I almost completely disagree. I've mentored guys who were greener than grass who grasped things like input sanitation intuitively. I've also worked with guys with 5+ years experience who thought this: $foo = $_GET['foo'] Was input sanitation. I would posit that, because of the vastly different quality needs, understandings, and valuations inherent in the industries that our industry touches (namely, all of them), it's unlikely that you're going to see any strong correlation between age/experience and code quality.
giulianob 14y ago
It's a junior level position. They aren't going to expect the guy to architect their solution. He's probably going to start doing some of the easier tasks.

RutZap 14y ago

This is a nice story but there are some hidden issues around here. The ones that want to get into programming should be aware of these: It's not an easy trip.. it's not just six months... it's a lifetime. Yes you might get a job in 6 months but then you will have to work even harder to keep that job and to be in the game. You will never stop learning... you will have to constantly adapt yourself to the new technologies otherwise you will end up being the guy hated by everyone for your crappy code that's a pain to be maintained. Yes you might learn Ruby or any other programming language and you can solve problems and build stuff... so basically you can do your job.... but there's more to programming. You should not just read a ruby book and learn the syntax and hey presto you are a developer. You should put some time in learning how software works, learning some algorithms and so on. It's not about one programming language, it's about programming in general. Programming languages are just tools we use to achieve a goal. For example, you can't be a car mechanic by learning how to use a wrench.. you need to know how to use more tools and, the most important thing, learn how to fix an issue using the most appropriate tool.

Swizec 14y ago
To be honest, I think this is true for every profession, not just programming. If you want to stay on top, you have to continually improve your game. Or you can be that guy in the corner who got left behind when the factory tanked and he suddenly found himself unemployable.
- RutZap 14y ago
  Yes this is true for every profession... but in programming it seems to be a more crucial thing as the programming world is changing and evolving faster than any other industry.. just think about what programmers used to do 10 years ago .. and what we do now... think how computers change in 10 years... (my mobile phone is smarter/faster than my state of the art PC from 10 years ago) The progression rate is astonishing and we must not forget that we still have to learn the basics in order to be good at what we do...
  - chucknelson 14y ago

slurgfest 14y ago

If you are a new graduate. If you are not a new graduate, and especially if you don't look so young, you are definitely not going to have such an easy time, without good connections. Take internships while you are in college, if you can

zxcvb 14y ago

He's a Ruby programmer.... LOL... says it all.

delinka 14y ago

Mentally add: "...if you've never coded/been a developer/have no prior experience." I came here wondering in what job market a developer has to wait six months to find a job. Oh, no experience. I see.

MengYuanLong 14y ago

I'm unable to access the article but I'm very surprised by many of the comments in this thread. A large number of articles are posted each month belittling (at the very least questioning the value) of non-technical founders. These and similar posts are then filled with sermons advocating individuals learn to code. Apparently, OP took these statements to heart, put in the effort/time, and what does he get as a result? Derision. What is this community about if it isn't about personal and financial growth coupled with creation? Perhaps in his post, OP makes some grandiose claim about being a master programmer, okay fine, cut him down. But I suspect it is far less egotistical and merely his way of celebrating a small victory brought about by what is so often advocated: That learning to code really is a way to improve your life.

wr1472 14y ago

tldr; there's no secret sauce; just work hard. Applies to other professions too. edit: Congrats to the author, and refreshing to see someone document, the effort involved as opposed to some "clever hack" of the system.

kmfrk 14y ago

Can anyone outside the U.S. - preferably in Europe - share similar stories, if any? I find that the U.S. has so many cool ways to work your way into a programming gig, it makes anyone outside red with envy, but I struggle to find something similar in Europe - especially in smaller countries. What would your advice be for us who can't get a U.S. visa? EDIT: I'm thinking mainly of Python/Django jobs and communities here.

dagw 14y ago
The big advantage with the US in this case is that it is often cheap and easy to fire someone. This makes companies much more likely to take a chance on someone, since they know they can get quickly rid of them if it doesn't work out.
- nandemo 14y ago
  That's true but it's not the only reason. Note that there's still a social cost to firing people. I believe another major reason is that software companies in the US are in average more profitable and more productive than in other countries.

giZm0 14y ago

One of the biggest problem in the industry is that there are to many bad programmers! The sad thing is that these kind of people spam all the employers, which make it a lot harder to filter out the good from the bad. On the other hand their work tend to give all the rest of the us work when they just hit the wall with something hard.

IceyEC 14y ago

This was a great read first thing in the morning! Thanks Jeff for your enthusiasm!

jeffreybaird 14y ago

So, there have been a lot of negative comments and I understand where they are coming from. I will try to address them as best I can. "Seeing a self-taught guy with 6 months coding experience writing software at a medical lab testing facility makes me a bit nervous." I am working mostly on internal systems and when I venture outside of that I have my own branch write thorough tests and have multiple people check my code. "I shudder to think of the quality of his code and the projects he or people like him are let loose on." My code is pretty shitty. But, I know how bad it is, I know my limitations. I work long days and more after work to improve. I am not pretending, I am learning. "Very fancy, but I am a software engineer, or programmer, as you prefer it to be called. Engineer means that I studied 5 years at university (Bs + Ms), and I know what I have learnt there, and I wouldn’t want to work with someone that doesn’t know about algorithms, algebra (it helps you understand a lot of things and opens your minid), compilers, statistics, concurrent programming, software architecture (1 full year course), UI designing, networks, databases, etc, etc." I disagree that amount of time in a University is what allows one to become a programmer, it is the skills and knowledge acquired at the school. I didn't have that option, I needed a job in under six months or I was going to have to get a job doing something I didn't love. I worked hard and got the job. Am I a master? Nope. But, I have put myself in a position to become one with continued hard work. I think that is all of them. Many people glossed over this line, "When I started this search I thought I would be scrubbing toilets in exchange for nightly code reviews." The fact that I am not doing that is a mixture of my willingness to clean toilets to learn the craft I love and a market desperation for developers.

mattdeboard 14y ago
If you're like me those kinds of comments probably gnawed at you. Don't let it. In a few years you'll have achieved parity in terms of salary and respect to most of these surly commenters, and no one will give a shit about your "origin story". Your work will speak for itself. To all the negative nancies, take it up with Dr. Norvig. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3278080 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3278080
LnxPrgr3 14y ago
I too am largely self-taught, though I took a much more convoluted path to get where I am today. I lucked out several years ago and found an employer willing to take a chance on me in spite of zero real-world experience and incomplete schooling. It seems to have worked out pretty well so far! You know you're still green, and I respect that. Everyone has to be at some point. I don't care if they went to school—I've seen people come out of respectable CS programs not knowing a damn thing about actually writing software. I've also seen people with plenty of experience—people who should really know better by now—still code trivially avoidable vulnerabilities and make other silly mistakes. School and experience are both lost on someone not really willing to take learning seriously, who already believes he's an expert.

codegeek 14y ago

"I like to learn; I like to teach; I kill two birds." I like this tagline on the blog. Congratulations Jeff. Yes there are naysayers and there is always an argument against something. But we applaud your efforts. For people who are criticizing this, just look at it this way. This guy pulled off something by working his ass of (in his own words). The creates hope and inspiration for others like him and I am sure there are plenty even among HN.

supernayan1 14y ago

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juddlyon 14y ago

I applaud your ambition and intitiative. Many experienced programmers should take note of how you socialized with other human beings (multiple times!) to get the gig. Enthusiasm is underrated.

joshlegs 14y ago

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I have been learning code about a year and now I have a part time job doing it. The key thing is to demonstrate aptitude. Period. You obviously have done this. Also, eagerness to learn is a huge huge selling point -- because apparently you do that throughout your programming career. But the biggest thing is to demonstrate an ability to code. You might not know everything a university graduate does, but then again, I hear a lot of the people coming out of university aren't very good programmers right now. =\ Not really sure. University teaches you a lot of foundational stuff, but if you have someone willing to work with you a little, you'll learn the same stuff (and likely already have a little of it under your belt). Anyway, kudos to you for sticking it out and being aggressive. Great example.

robomartin 14y ago

While I value a college education I have to say that a college degree is not a guarantee of performance at all. A programmer, in my opinion, must have some College exposure. The OP does, as he says he graduated with a business degree. Aside from that, programming is a multi-faceted and ever-evolving discipline. We are always learning new things. A proven ability to approach something new and learn it is at the top of my list. He certainly proved that part. I come to this from the perspective that virtually nothing I do today existed when I was in college. This goes for programming languages and even hardware design areas such as FPGA's. I, as an engineer, have to learn constantly. That aspect of my profession never stopped and, in fact, intensified after leaving college as there's so much to learn. How is a college grad going to react to a paradigm shift such as what happened as the internet started to take roots? It was the wild west for several years as new ideas popped-up and you had to either play or get off the train. I'll take someone really smart who has the tenacity, drive and interest to learn new things quickly over a degreed engineer who is slow to react. I have known many engineers who have remained stagnant over the years because they simply didn't want to bother to learn new things or were far too comfortable doing what they were doing. Some of these guys are unemployed today. Their skill set simply doesn't match todays reality and a degree means exactly nothing. Now, to be sure, the combination of good, solid schooling and drive, tenacity and a rabid interest to constantly learn can be a very powerful thing. In my experience that person is more the exception than the rule. A lot of college grads just want to find a train to ride as long as they can with the skill set they acquired. The self-driven individual who wants to own a topic today and then another topic tomorrow is very rare. Oh, yes, and a lot of college grads write code that is as shitty as anyone else's. There is no monopoly on the ability to write horrible code due to the lack of experience.

pearcerw 14y ago

I was lucky enough to give a little talk at BarCampCharleston, in Charleston, SC, last year. I spoke on the same topic, but from a less generic standpoint (focus was on Rails): https://railsneedtoknow.heroku.com https://railsneedtoknow.heroku.com It's not perfect, but it helped a lot of people :)

afterburner 14y ago

"Push code to github EVERYDAY" Good advice; the title lends itself to initially annoy skeptics (including me), but it does look like you put a lot of effort into this. With that kind of sustained and public effort it's definitely doable.

jeffreybaird 14y ago

The post has moved, so if you are looking it is here: http://jeffreybaird.github.com/blog/2012/08/21/how-to-get-a-job-as-a-developer-in-less-than-six-months/ http://jeffreybaird.github.com/blog/2012/08/21/how-to-get-a-...