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Hustles don't fail, why would you think they would? Customers love hiring hustlers. Startups fail because they want software economics, not hustle economics. If

Hustles don't fail, why would you think they would? Customers love hiring hustlers. Startups fail because they want software economics, not hustle economics. If you're willing to accept hustle economics, you'll never run out of work.

prmph 1y ago
Weird arguments you are making. I'm talking about startup business. > Hustles don't fail Then by definition there should be few engineers with financial problems, right? Almost every engineer wants to succeed with their side hustle
- vinceguidry 1y ago
  No engineer wants to hustle. You're still only thinking in terms of startups. I'm thinking about landscapers and ticket scalpers. No engineer is doing that. But if you were willing to, you'd make money.
  - kerkeslager 1y ago
    You're not communicating well--it's unclear what you mean by "hustle". It's also pretty unlikely that speaking in absolutes ("no engineer") is correct here. It sounds a lot like you're saying "all engineers are lazy" and that's just obviously wrong.
    - vinceguidry 1y ago
      Using the words of the person I was discussing with. > providing the most barely functioning product at the cheapest prices, and making enough revenue by volume This is hustling.
      - kerkeslager 1y ago
        And if that's what you're saying, you're unambiguously wrong on your overall point. Plenty of engineers are building barely-functional products as fast (cheap, because time is money) as can be and doing a ton of volume. The entire Bangalore contractor scene was built this way, as well as a ton of small Western contractor shops. You honestly think no engineers understand undercutting competition? Really?
        vinceguidry 1y ago
        Some engineers are alive to the hustle game. But if you're focused on quality you're not hustling. I'm not sure though I'd call business folks with software products that are hustling engineers. Different mindset.
        kerkeslager 1y ago
        Committing to either "hustle" or "quality" is equally stupid. Quality is a means to an end goal, and eschewing quality is also a means to an end goal. And again, there are both business folks and engineers who are smart enough to choose when a focus on quality fits their goals and when it doesn't. It sounds like you've bought into some ridiculous "sigma grindset" nonsense and you're now gatekeeping it as an identity. For your own good, stop. Contrary to what you seem to believe, hustles do fail, and if you close your mind to that possibility you're going to eventually hustle on the wrong thing and burn yourself out on a hustle that doesn't work. And even if you don't, you'll make yourself intolerable to anyone you'd want to interact with. It's not a good path.
        vinceguidry 1y ago
        > Committing to either "hustle" or "quality" is equally stupid. Of course it is. > It sounds like you've bought into some ridiculous "sigma grindset" nonsense and you're now gatekeeping it as an identity. This kind of rationalistic bullshit is exactly what I make it my mission to rail against on HN. Speaking in a general sense can only be done well from an intuititionist perspective. My original post on this garnered 25 upvotes, quite above average these days. You're the one mistaking my generalization for gatekeeping, and it's precisely because you're holding on to a rationalist mindset, so you project that onto others. All I was doing was committing to the bit. No half-measures for me. Nobody follows threads after the first day or so anyway. No harm in continuing discussions past the sell-by date.
sanderjd 1y ago
I honestly don't understand what point this comment is trying to make.

prmph 1y ago

Weird arguments you are making. I'm talking about startup business. > Hustles don't fail Then by definition there should be few engineers with financial problems, right? Almost every engineer wants to succeed with their side hustle

vinceguidry 1y ago
No engineer wants to hustle. You're still only thinking in terms of startups. I'm thinking about landscapers and ticket scalpers. No engineer is doing that. But if you were willing to, you'd make money.
- kerkeslager 1y ago
  You're not communicating well--it's unclear what you mean by "hustle". It's also pretty unlikely that speaking in absolutes ("no engineer") is correct here. It sounds a lot like you're saying "all engineers are lazy" and that's just obviously wrong.
  - vinceguidry 1y ago
    Using the words of the person I was discussing with. > providing the most barely functioning product at the cheapest prices, and making enough revenue by volume This is hustling.
    - kerkeslager 1y ago
      And if that's what you're saying, you're unambiguously wrong on your overall point. Plenty of engineers are building barely-functional products as fast (cheap, because time is money) as can be and doing a ton of volume. The entire Bangalore contractor scene was built this way, as well as a ton of small Western contractor shops. You honestly think no engineers understand undercutting competition? Really?
      - vinceguidry 1y ago
        Some engineers are alive to the hustle game. But if you're focused on quality you're not hustling. I'm not sure though I'd call business folks with software products that are hustling engineers. Different mindset.
        kerkeslager 1y ago
        Committing to either "hustle" or "quality" is equally stupid. Quality is a means to an end goal, and eschewing quality is also a means to an end goal. And again, there are both business folks and engineers who are smart enough to choose when a focus on quality fits their goals and when it doesn't. It sounds like you've bought into some ridiculous "sigma grindset" nonsense and you're now gatekeeping it as an identity. For your own good, stop. Contrary to what you seem to believe, hustles do fail, and if you close your mind to that possibility you're going to eventually hustle on the wrong thing and burn yourself out on a hustle that doesn't work. And even if you don't, you'll make yourself intolerable to anyone you'd want to interact with. It's not a good path.
        vinceguidry 1y ago
        > Committing to either "hustle" or "quality" is equally stupid. Of course it is. > It sounds like you've bought into some ridiculous "sigma grindset" nonsense and you're now gatekeeping it as an identity. This kind of rationalistic bullshit is exactly what I make it my mission to rail against on HN. Speaking in a general sense can only be done well from an intuititionist perspective. My original post on this garnered 25 upvotes, quite above average these days. You're the one mistaking my generalization for gatekeeping, and it's precisely because you're holding on to a rationalist mindset, so you project that onto others. All I was doing was committing to the bit. No half-measures for me. Nobody follows threads after the first day or so anyway. No harm in continuing discussions past the sell-by date.

sanderjd 1y ago

I honestly don't understand what point this comment is trying to make.