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I don't really want to argue about this all over again but I would be remiss to not mention that property and data are not easily equated. To answer your suppo

I don't really want to argue about this all over again but I would be remiss to not mention that property and data are not easily equated. To answer your supposition, he probably would value the damage of stealing fruit as the market value of the fruit and possibly the loss of sales from not having the inventory. It's pretty clear that the second consideration does not apply to music.

thwarted 18y ago
Keep in mind that market value is defined as the price the market puts on something when an exchange takes place, not the dollar value printed on the price tag. When I first tried to sell my house, no one would buy it because we set the asking price too high, the asking price was not the market value. Interestingly enough, doesn't the scarcity of the good factor into the market value (or at least the perception of scarcity)? Can something with an infinite supply even have a market value?
mhb 18y ago
I'm not interested in that argument either. I am specifically asking what this judge would take into account besides the retail value of the fruit. The grocer obviously doesn't sell all his inventory. Would the damage calculation take that into account? What if the thief chose pieces of fruit which other customers were not likely to buy?
- emmett 18y ago
  If the grocer was suing the thief in civil court for restitution, that's exactly the kind of calculation the court would have to do. However, in our court system, thieves are generally tried in criminal court, not sued for restitution. That's why copyright cases (usually civil) are so different from real theft cases (usually criminal).
  - gravitycop 18y ago
    However, in our court system, thieves are generally tried in criminal court, not sued for restitution. Restitution is a normal part of criminal sentencing. http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/restitution http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/restitution In criminal law restitution is a regular feature in the sentences of criminal defendants. Restitution in the criminal arena refers to an affirmative performance by the defendant that benefits either the victim of the crime or the general public. If a victim can be identified, a judge will order the defendant to make restitution to the victim. For example, if a defendant is convicted of stealing a person's stereo, the defendant may be sentenced to reimburse the victim for the value of the stereo, in addition to punishment such as jail time and monetary fines.
    - emmett 18y ago
      Restitution can indeed be part of a criminal suit. However, copyright cases are generally not tried as criminal suits; they're RIAA vs. Joe Schmoe. Thievery cases are tried as criminal cases. Different standards are applied in each case.

thwarted 18y ago

Keep in mind that market value is defined as the price the market puts on something when an exchange takes place, not the dollar value printed on the price tag. When I first tried to sell my house, no one would buy it because we set the asking price too high, the asking price was not the market value. Interestingly enough, doesn't the scarcity of the good factor into the market value (or at least the perception of scarcity)? Can something with an infinite supply even have a market value?

mhb 18y ago

I'm not interested in that argument either. I am specifically asking what this judge would take into account besides the retail value of the fruit. The grocer obviously doesn't sell all his inventory. Would the damage calculation take that into account? What if the thief chose pieces of fruit which other customers were not likely to buy?

emmett 18y ago
If the grocer was suing the thief in civil court for restitution, that's exactly the kind of calculation the court would have to do. However, in our court system, thieves are generally tried in criminal court, not sued for restitution. That's why copyright cases (usually civil) are so different from real theft cases (usually criminal).
- gravitycop 18y ago
  However, in our court system, thieves are generally tried in criminal court, not sued for restitution. Restitution is a normal part of criminal sentencing. http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/restitution http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/restitution In criminal law restitution is a regular feature in the sentences of criminal defendants. Restitution in the criminal arena refers to an affirmative performance by the defendant that benefits either the victim of the crime or the general public. If a victim can be identified, a judge will order the defendant to make restitution to the victim. For example, if a defendant is convicted of stealing a person's stereo, the defendant may be sentenced to reimburse the victim for the value of the stereo, in addition to punishment such as jail time and monetary fines.
  - emmett 18y ago
    Restitution can indeed be part of a criminal suit. However, copyright cases are generally not tried as criminal suits; they're RIAA vs. Joe Schmoe. Thievery cases are tried as criminal cases. Different standards are applied in each case.