5 ms·

> code is not an asset—it's a liability Yes, this. 100% this. The goal is for a program to serve a goal/purpose with the least a amount of code possible. AI do

> code is not an asset—it's a liability Yes, this. 100% this. The goal is for a program to serve a goal/purpose with the least a amount of code possible. AI does the exact opposite. Now that code generation is easy, there is no more natural constraint preventing too much liability.

artrockalter 1y ago
An answer to the productivity paradox (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Productivity_paradox https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Productivity_paradox) could be that increased technology causes increased complexity of systems, offsetting efficiency gains from the technology itself.
RankingMember 1y ago
Reminds me a lot of the old days where people were using MS FrontPage to create websites and the html was like 90% cruft.
- 1shooner 1y ago
  >html was like 90% cruft. Have you looked at much top-tier website code lately?
  - DaSHacka 1y ago
    I visited stallman.org just the other day, yes.
    - absurdo 1y ago
      [flagged]
  - RankingMember 1y ago
    haha, you're not lying. Frameworks on top of frameworks- it's turtles all the way down.
westoque 1y ago
Such a great quote. Mostly true if viewed especially from a business standpoint. I for one also see code as creative expression, a form of art. I like coding because I can express a solution in a way that is elegant and nice to read for myself and others. A bit shallow but If you've read code that is written elegantly, you'll know that immediately.
- a_imho 1y ago
  My point today is that, if we wish to count lines of code, we should not regard them as "lines produced" but as "lines spent": the current conventional wisdom is so foolish as to book that count on the wrong side of the ledger. https://www.cs.utexas.edu/~EWD/transcriptions/EWD10xx/EWD1036.html https://www.cs.utexas.edu/~EWD/transcriptions/EWD10xx/EWD103...
coliveira 1y ago
But if code can be easily replaced, why it needs to be a liability? If something goes wrong, the next generation of "programmers" will ask the ai to generate the code again.
- dakiol 1y ago
  Code can't easily be replaced. It's "soft"ware sure, but why do you think banks are still using Cobol? Why do you think my old company is still running a deprecated version of Zend (PHP framework)?
  - skydhash 1y ago
    Also the reason the term technical debt has been used. Every decision you enforce with the code you write is something that you may need to revert later. And the cost of doing so can be really high. So high that in the parent comment, you just don’t bother.
  - coliveira 1y ago
    Because, until recently, it was very costly to replace the code. AI "programmers" will create completely new code in a few minutes so there's no need to maintain it. If there are new problems tomorrow, they'll generate the code again.
    - dakiol 1y ago
      > If there are new problems tomorrow, they'll generate the code again. What's the difference (from an LLM point of view) between code generated one week ago and code generated now? How does the LLM know where or how to fix the bug? Why the LLM didn't generate the code without that particular bug to begin with?
      - coliveira 1y ago
        Tomorrow the "programmer" will tell the AI what the bug was or what change needs to be made and it will generate new code considering this added requirement.

artrockalter 1y ago

An answer to the productivity paradox (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Productivity_paradox https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Productivity_paradox) could be that increased technology causes increased complexity of systems, offsetting efficiency gains from the technology itself.

RankingMember 1y ago

Reminds me a lot of the old days where people were using MS FrontPage to create websites and the html was like 90% cruft.

1shooner 1y ago
>html was like 90% cruft. Have you looked at much top-tier website code lately?
- DaSHacka 1y ago
  I visited stallman.org just the other day, yes.
  - absurdo 1y ago
    [flagged]
- RankingMember 1y ago
  haha, you're not lying. Frameworks on top of frameworks- it's turtles all the way down.

westoque 1y ago

Such a great quote. Mostly true if viewed especially from a business standpoint. I for one also see code as creative expression, a form of art. I like coding because I can express a solution in a way that is elegant and nice to read for myself and others. A bit shallow but If you've read code that is written elegantly, you'll know that immediately.

a_imho 1y ago
My point today is that, if we wish to count lines of code, we should not regard them as "lines produced" but as "lines spent": the current conventional wisdom is so foolish as to book that count on the wrong side of the ledger. https://www.cs.utexas.edu/~EWD/transcriptions/EWD10xx/EWD1036.html https://www.cs.utexas.edu/~EWD/transcriptions/EWD10xx/EWD103...

coliveira 1y ago

But if code can be easily replaced, why it needs to be a liability? If something goes wrong, the next generation of "programmers" will ask the ai to generate the code again.

dakiol 1y ago
Code can't easily be replaced. It's "soft"ware sure, but why do you think banks are still using Cobol? Why do you think my old company is still running a deprecated version of Zend (PHP framework)?
- skydhash 1y ago
  Also the reason the term technical debt has been used. Every decision you enforce with the code you write is something that you may need to revert later. And the cost of doing so can be really high. So high that in the parent comment, you just don’t bother.
- coliveira 1y ago
  Because, until recently, it was very costly to replace the code. AI "programmers" will create completely new code in a few minutes so there's no need to maintain it. If there are new problems tomorrow, they'll generate the code again.
  - dakiol 1y ago
    > If there are new problems tomorrow, they'll generate the code again. What's the difference (from an LLM point of view) between code generated one week ago and code generated now? How does the LLM know where or how to fix the bug? Why the LLM didn't generate the code without that particular bug to begin with?
    - coliveira 1y ago
      Tomorrow the "programmer" will tell the AI what the bug was or what change needs to be made and it will generate new code considering this added requirement.