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Britain has a problem. But so does America. Quite a few people (non citizens so far), have been arrested for criticising the actions of the current Israeli gov

Britain has a problem. But so does America. Quite a few people (non citizens so far), have been arrested for criticising the actions of the current Israeli government.

Terr_ 1y ago
Often the problems with free-speech in another country are used as a distraction from whatever is happening at home. In all directions.
ARandomerDude 1y ago
[flagged]
- chairmansteve 1y ago
  Nope they are being jailed in the USA for weeks or months.
- jrflowers 1y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_R%C3%BCmeysa_%C3%96zt%C3%BCrk https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_R%C3%BCmeysa_%C...
landl0rd 1y ago
Strictly speaking most have been arrested on immigration-related charges but been targeted for prosecution due to criticizing israel. This is bad and a large step in the wrong direction but it's markedly less bad than the "hate speech" laws of Britain and many european countries.
- chairmansteve 1y ago
  The laws may be different but the result is identical. JD Vance should look at the bible he likes to tout. "Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone"
  - landl0rd 1y ago
    Vance isn't running policy. He is the vice president. Many people are arrested every day. Some are for justified reasons and some are not. "The result is identical." Intent and rationale matter.
    - burnt-resistor 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - landl0rd 1y ago
        Right I already said he's the vice president. That's the job. We started with a system where the runner-up was VP and had a bit more of a role, then changed it to this.
- KaiserPro 1y ago
  > but it's markedly less bad than the "hate speech" laws those laws require due process. the american immigration "charges" are not tested by courts. They are executive actions, that might be challenged if you are rich enough. The UK does not have "hate speech" laws. It never had, anyone who tells you otherwise is pulling your leg. What can happen is you can ask for a more harsh sentence if there is "hate" involved. Yes, you will have heard of cases where someone was simple "just a bit racist" but thats moreoften than not an aggravating factor.
  - landl0rd 1y ago
    In 2014, Police Scotland posted on its Twitter, "Please be aware that we will continue to monitor comments on social media & any offensive comments will be investigated." Met Police have taken similar actions in pursuit of chilling effects on social media. The Communications Act prohibits what are at best vaguely-defined "offensive communications" and created Ofcom. Because of this ridiculous violation of inalienable rights, in 2016, almost 9 people every day were detained and questioned for online speech and almost half of those were prosecuted. Britons have been jailed for posting emojis of an ethnic minority with an emoji of a gun. Or for saying illegals should be mass-deported. They have also been jailed for things that probably are closer to hate speech but that is just as bad. Let's not pretend "due process" is worth a damn when such a basically unjust law is allowed to stand.
    - skippyboxedhero 1y ago
      The number today is 30 arrests per day.
      - KaiserPro 1y ago
        ok, can you provide a link to where that number comes from?
    - pcrh 1y ago
      > inalienable rights The UK doesn't follow the American declaration of independence... In UK law such "inalienable rights" are found within the Human Rights Act, 1998 [0], itself based largely on the European Convention on Human Rights [1]. Both are famously disparaged by the political right. [0] https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/42/contents https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/42/contents [1] https://coe.int/en/web/human-rights-convention/home https://coe.int/en/web/human-rights-convention/home
postepowanieadm 1y ago
I think we need to be more specific: not criticizing Israel per se, only criminal actions of the current government.
- chairmansteve 1y ago
  True.
- Gothmog69 1y ago
  [flagged]
- techright75 1y ago
  No criminal actions whatsoever. A nation has a right to strike back when it is attacked by a foreign nation using any means it deems necessary for that type of attack to never happen again.
  - acquisitionsilk 1y ago
    [dead]
dijit 1y ago
[flagged]
CommanderData 1y ago
[flagged]
onetimeusename 1y ago
The difference between the two free speech problems can be exemplified with the statements "Palestine is for the Palestinians" and "Britain is for the British". I suspect the political solution behind the two free speech problems is very different though.
TacticalCoder 1y ago
[dead]
techright75 1y ago
Nope. The only problem America has is that it let so many people in illegally for so many years. The fact is that almost none (probably none but Im sure there is some weird exception you'll try to spin) of the people criticizing Israel are being arrested - only the ones who break laws while tangentially criticizing American allies. The fact is, you can go to X and see millions of anti-Trump and anti-Israel posts. Im sure it's far worse on Bluecry. The only ones getting arrested are those who violently threaten, break into buildings, hold up traffic etc. I know that the resisters think are some kind of bad ass outlaws, but in reality they are a bunch of nobodies whom no one cares about and no law enforcement is visiting - because it is still very legal to criticize the president and his policies no matter what nonsense you make up.

Britain has a problem. But so does America. Quite a few people (non citizens so far), have been arrested for criticising the actions of the current Israeli government.

Terr_ 1y ago

Often the problems with free-speech in another country are used as a distraction from whatever is happening at home. In all directions.

ARandomerDude 1y ago

[flagged]

chairmansteve 1y ago
Nope they are being jailed in the USA for weeks or months.
jrflowers 1y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_R%C3%BCmeysa_%C3%96zt%C3%BCrk https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_R%C3%BCmeysa_%C...

landl0rd 1y ago

Strictly speaking most have been arrested on immigration-related charges but been targeted for prosecution due to criticizing israel. This is bad and a large step in the wrong direction but it's markedly less bad than the "hate speech" laws of Britain and many european countries.

chairmansteve 1y ago
The laws may be different but the result is identical. JD Vance should look at the bible he likes to tout. "Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone"
- landl0rd 1y ago
  Vance isn't running policy. He is the vice president. Many people are arrested every day. Some are for justified reasons and some are not. "The result is identical." Intent and rationale matter.
  - burnt-resistor 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - landl0rd 1y ago
      Right I already said he's the vice president. That's the job. We started with a system where the runner-up was VP and had a bit more of a role, then changed it to this.
KaiserPro 1y ago
> but it's markedly less bad than the "hate speech" laws those laws require due process. the american immigration "charges" are not tested by courts. They are executive actions, that might be challenged if you are rich enough. The UK does not have "hate speech" laws. It never had, anyone who tells you otherwise is pulling your leg. What can happen is you can ask for a more harsh sentence if there is "hate" involved. Yes, you will have heard of cases where someone was simple "just a bit racist" but thats moreoften than not an aggravating factor.
- landl0rd 1y ago
  In 2014, Police Scotland posted on its Twitter, "Please be aware that we will continue to monitor comments on social media & any offensive comments will be investigated." Met Police have taken similar actions in pursuit of chilling effects on social media. The Communications Act prohibits what are at best vaguely-defined "offensive communications" and created Ofcom. Because of this ridiculous violation of inalienable rights, in 2016, almost 9 people every day were detained and questioned for online speech and almost half of those were prosecuted. Britons have been jailed for posting emojis of an ethnic minority with an emoji of a gun. Or for saying illegals should be mass-deported. They have also been jailed for things that probably are closer to hate speech but that is just as bad. Let's not pretend "due process" is worth a damn when such a basically unjust law is allowed to stand.
  - skippyboxedhero 1y ago
    The number today is 30 arrests per day.
    - KaiserPro 1y ago
      ok, can you provide a link to where that number comes from?
  - pcrh 1y ago
    > inalienable rights The UK doesn't follow the American declaration of independence... In UK law such "inalienable rights" are found within the Human Rights Act, 1998 [0], itself based largely on the European Convention on Human Rights [1]. Both are famously disparaged by the political right. [0] https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/42/contents https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/42/contents [1] https://coe.int/en/web/human-rights-convention/home https://coe.int/en/web/human-rights-convention/home

postepowanieadm 1y ago

I think we need to be more specific: not criticizing Israel per se, only criminal actions of the current government.

chairmansteve 1y ago
True.
Gothmog69 1y ago
[flagged]
techright75 1y ago
No criminal actions whatsoever. A nation has a right to strike back when it is attacked by a foreign nation using any means it deems necessary for that type of attack to never happen again.
- acquisitionsilk 1y ago
  [dead]

dijit 1y ago

[flagged]

CommanderData 1y ago

[flagged]

onetimeusename 1y ago

The difference between the two free speech problems can be exemplified with the statements "Palestine is for the Palestinians" and "Britain is for the British". I suspect the political solution behind the two free speech problems is very different though.

TacticalCoder 1y ago

[dead]

techright75 1y ago

Nope. The only problem America has is that it let so many people in illegally for so many years. The fact is that almost none (probably none but Im sure there is some weird exception you'll try to spin) of the people criticizing Israel are being arrested - only the ones who break laws while tangentially criticizing American allies. The fact is, you can go to X and see millions of anti-Trump and anti-Israel posts. Im sure it's far worse on Bluecry. The only ones getting arrested are those who violently threaten, break into buildings, hold up traffic etc. I know that the resisters think are some kind of bad ass outlaws, but in reality they are a bunch of nobodies whom no one cares about and no law enforcement is visiting - because it is still very legal to criticize the president and his policies no matter what nonsense you make up.