4 ms·

As someone who remembers what the web was like 25 years ago, I have a feeling that they're burying a corpse.

by romaaeterna 1y ago

pphysch 1y ago
Yes, a corpse killed by Facebook, Reddit, Discord and other closed platforms.
- energy123 1y ago
  All the negativity is public and algorithmically boosted, all the positivity is in private chats. And this is increasingly the case over time. I sincerely hope for maximum enshittification in the form of AI slop rendering these misery machines discredited in the public's mind so the spell is broken.
- Spivak 1y ago
  Does it actually matter that Discord is closed or would the problem still exist if Matrix won and the content contained within was nonetheless still not indexable by search engines and communities were invite only? Because the fact that Discord is flourishing is I think a direct result of it not being a part of the giant amalgamated omniplatform indexed by search engines. Being shielded from the masses is the point. There aren't megaphones in small private communities where the social dynamics of repeat interactions are in play. People aren't competing to say the most outrageous rage-bait for engagement.
  - TremendousJudge 1y ago
    >People aren't competing to say the most outrageous rage-bait for engagement. This was never true in the age of web forums, which was the equivalent to Discord in many cases, and still isn't true in niche subreddits, which are public and indexed by search engines.
  - oceansky 1y ago
    But the counterpoint is that it's much harder to find any information, including personal anecdotes from people, without being part of the particular community.
- oceansky 1y ago
  How's reddit a closed platform? It's superbly indexed by Google. In fact searching site:reddit.com often greatly improve my results.
  - pphysch 1y ago
    Reddit isn't the worst offender, but it's still one profit-motivated company that can unilaterally scrub posts, users, and entire subreddits, and its infested with guerilla advertising. And the whole "new.reddit.com" thing strongly suggests that Reddit is/was evolving to be a more closed platform.
pera 1y ago
The corpse was already buried ages ago and his name was Jeeves: What they are doing now is an exhumation and calling it the future.
ndiddy 1y ago
There’s still tons of personal webpages out there, Google just doesn’t expose them because it’s in their interest to show ad-filled SEO blogspam since they also operate AdSense and DoubleClick for Publishers. https://marginalia-search.com/ https://marginalia-search.com/ does a much better job of finding personal sites.
- Rebelgecko 1y ago
  Is that website down, or maybe it doesn't work in EU? Edit: NVM, just took a few refreshes to get past the "oh noes" screen
  - Weryj 1y ago
    Works in NL
- skrause 1y ago
  It doesn't really "find" any personal sites, you have to tell it about each manually with a pull request: https://github.com/MarginaliaSearch/submit-site-to-marginalia-search https://github.com/MarginaliaSearch/submit-site-to-marginali...
  - ndiddy 1y ago
    This isn't true, Marginalia Search has a crawler. The guy who runs the site writes a lot about the trials and tribulations of running a web crawler on his blog if you're interested. https://www.marginalia.nu/log/ https://www.marginalia.nu/log/ I just checked and my site is listed despite me never manually submitting it. I guess if nobody links to your site, you would have to manually submit it due to it not showing up in crawls, but that's true about any search engine.
  - marginalia_nu 1y ago
    That form is just to insert domains that aren't found automatically.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
sanderjd 1y ago
Right? I'm sure Google deserves some, maybe a lot, of the blame, but the web has just deteriorated steadily over the past 15 years or so and I really don't think it's all their fault.
- p3rls 1y ago
  Wet streets cause rain-level observations from non-publishers in this thread. The web everyone is nostalgic about was killed by google.
  - sanderjd 1y ago
    Maybe, but I honestly don't buy it. (As I said, I do buy that they deserve some blame.) To me, the web everyone here is nostalgic for was mostly killed by the much larger majority of people whose revealed preference has been for something totally different. Nobody I know outside techie forums would have any idea what we're talking about with this critique of the web. They don't know or care about the "indie web" or other information-rich independent websites. They know and care about facebook, instagram, and tiktok. This isn't (entirely) Google's fault, it's what most people have shown that they want.
anal_reactor 1y ago
I'd like to limit my online time, but I'm so addicted to the internet, even though it's pure garbage nowadays. Any practical tips? It's not about putting away the phone, it's about... the hope that maybe this time I'll read something funny or informative, as I have absolutely no other sources of information or social interaction. "Go out and talk to people" isn't valid advice. It's never been, but in 2025 finally even the mainstream is slowly admitting that this doesn't work.
- romaaeterna 1y ago
  Learn an ancient language and read nothing in English for 2-3 years. Once you come back to English, avoid anything after the 19th century.
- droidist2 1y ago
  > "Go out and talk to people" isn't valid advice. It's never been, but in 2025 finally even the mainstream is slowly admitting that this doesn't work. Why doesn't it work?
  - coffeefirst 1y ago
    It absolutely does work but it’s too vague. A person in this position really needs to go outside and talk to people but doesn’t where to start. So, join a running club, or go to pub trivia, take an in person class, or volunteer. Pick literally anything you can show up once a week and there will be people doing stuff. It will change your life.
    - anal_reactor 1y ago
      It's ridiculous that anno domini 2025 when someone says "I have issues making social connections" the default assumption is still that the person literally hasn't put any effort. It's literally the extension of "noooo there are no bigger social changes going on, the only reason why you can't get a date is because you don't shower, I'm absolutely sure of it, stop showing me statistics that loneliness is a growing problem across the whole society I will deny that and accuse of bad hygiene or being creepy, it's your personal failure, you need to understand this".

As someone who remembers what the web was like 25 years ago, I have a feeling that they're burying a corpse.

pphysch 1y ago

Yes, a corpse killed by Facebook, Reddit, Discord and other closed platforms.

energy123 1y ago
All the negativity is public and algorithmically boosted, all the positivity is in private chats. And this is increasingly the case over time. I sincerely hope for maximum enshittification in the form of AI slop rendering these misery machines discredited in the public's mind so the spell is broken.
Spivak 1y ago
Does it actually matter that Discord is closed or would the problem still exist if Matrix won and the content contained within was nonetheless still not indexable by search engines and communities were invite only? Because the fact that Discord is flourishing is I think a direct result of it not being a part of the giant amalgamated omniplatform indexed by search engines. Being shielded from the masses is the point. There aren't megaphones in small private communities where the social dynamics of repeat interactions are in play. People aren't competing to say the most outrageous rage-bait for engagement.
- TremendousJudge 1y ago
  >People aren't competing to say the most outrageous rage-bait for engagement. This was never true in the age of web forums, which was the equivalent to Discord in many cases, and still isn't true in niche subreddits, which are public and indexed by search engines.
- oceansky 1y ago
  But the counterpoint is that it's much harder to find any information, including personal anecdotes from people, without being part of the particular community.
oceansky 1y ago
How's reddit a closed platform? It's superbly indexed by Google. In fact searching site:reddit.com often greatly improve my results.
- pphysch 1y ago
  Reddit isn't the worst offender, but it's still one profit-motivated company that can unilaterally scrub posts, users, and entire subreddits, and its infested with guerilla advertising. And the whole "new.reddit.com" thing strongly suggests that Reddit is/was evolving to be a more closed platform.

pera 1y ago

The corpse was already buried ages ago and his name was Jeeves: What they are doing now is an exhumation and calling it the future.

ndiddy 1y ago

There’s still tons of personal webpages out there, Google just doesn’t expose them because it’s in their interest to show ad-filled SEO blogspam since they also operate AdSense and DoubleClick for Publishers. https://marginalia-search.com/ https://marginalia-search.com/ does a much better job of finding personal sites.

Rebelgecko 1y ago
Is that website down, or maybe it doesn't work in EU? Edit: NVM, just took a few refreshes to get past the "oh noes" screen
- Weryj 1y ago
  Works in NL
skrause 1y ago
It doesn't really "find" any personal sites, you have to tell it about each manually with a pull request: https://github.com/MarginaliaSearch/submit-site-to-marginalia-search https://github.com/MarginaliaSearch/submit-site-to-marginali...
- ndiddy 1y ago
  This isn't true, Marginalia Search has a crawler. The guy who runs the site writes a lot about the trials and tribulations of running a web crawler on his blog if you're interested. https://www.marginalia.nu/log/ https://www.marginalia.nu/log/ I just checked and my site is listed despite me never manually submitting it. I guess if nobody links to your site, you would have to manually submit it due to it not showing up in crawls, but that's true about any search engine.
- marginalia_nu 1y ago
  That form is just to insert domains that aren't found automatically.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

sanderjd 1y ago

Right? I'm sure Google deserves some, maybe a lot, of the blame, but the web has just deteriorated steadily over the past 15 years or so and I really don't think it's all their fault.

p3rls 1y ago
Wet streets cause rain-level observations from non-publishers in this thread. The web everyone is nostalgic about was killed by google.
- sanderjd 1y ago
  Maybe, but I honestly don't buy it. (As I said, I do buy that they deserve some blame.) To me, the web everyone here is nostalgic for was mostly killed by the much larger majority of people whose revealed preference has been for something totally different. Nobody I know outside techie forums would have any idea what we're talking about with this critique of the web. They don't know or care about the "indie web" or other information-rich independent websites. They know and care about facebook, instagram, and tiktok. This isn't (entirely) Google's fault, it's what most people have shown that they want.

anal_reactor 1y ago

I'd like to limit my online time, but I'm so addicted to the internet, even though it's pure garbage nowadays. Any practical tips? It's not about putting away the phone, it's about... the hope that maybe this time I'll read something funny or informative, as I have absolutely no other sources of information or social interaction. "Go out and talk to people" isn't valid advice. It's never been, but in 2025 finally even the mainstream is slowly admitting that this doesn't work.

romaaeterna 1y ago
Learn an ancient language and read nothing in English for 2-3 years. Once you come back to English, avoid anything after the 19th century.
droidist2 1y ago
> "Go out and talk to people" isn't valid advice. It's never been, but in 2025 finally even the mainstream is slowly admitting that this doesn't work. Why doesn't it work?
- coffeefirst 1y ago
  It absolutely does work but it’s too vague. A person in this position really needs to go outside and talk to people but doesn’t where to start. So, join a running club, or go to pub trivia, take an in person class, or volunteer. Pick literally anything you can show up once a week and there will be people doing stuff. It will change your life.
  - anal_reactor 1y ago
    It's ridiculous that anno domini 2025 when someone says "I have issues making social connections" the default assumption is still that the person literally hasn't put any effort. It's literally the extension of "noooo there are no bigger social changes going on, the only reason why you can't get a date is because you don't shower, I'm absolutely sure of it, stop showing me statistics that loneliness is a growing problem across the whole society I will deny that and accuse of bad hygiene or being creepy, it's your personal failure, you need to understand this".