4 ms·

Apparently they not only create the website, but also claim the Google Maps listing using the website. And then go on to extort the restaurants for $$$ to add

by ctxc 1y ago

Apparently they not only create the website, but also claim the Google Maps listing using the website. And then go on to extort the restaurants for $$$ to add their correct contact details on the listing.

rollcat 1y ago
Agreed. Search engine results is what gives a domain name credibility. EU has been going hard on "gatekeepers" recently. Good regulation could fix this. E.g. make Google verify each address by sending the business a form in a self-addressed, stamped envelope.
- tom1337 1y ago
  Back in the days Google verified businesses by sending a postcard to the address you have created your business at. The postcard had a verification code which you’d need to enter. Sometimes you'd also had to revalidate the adress ownership every now and then. Unfortunately they do not seem to be doing this anymore.
  - sampullman 1y ago
    I had to do this a few years ago, I'm surprised it's not done that way anymore.
  - barbazoo 1y ago
    Probably got in the way of them making all the money.
- esperent 1y ago
  When I registered my business on Google maps they said they were going to send a postcard with a code on it to verify us. This was about 3 years ago. But they never actually did as far as I know, unless one of my colleagues handled it without telling me.
- lolinder 1y ago
  Google should be forced to do this, but also I'm pretty sure that this behavior by Lieferando breaks existing laws that just need to be enforced.
- jozvolskyef 1y ago
  Physical mail, too, is a source of gatekeeping and bureaucracy. It is labour-intensive, expensive, and you are trading your false positive rate of digital impostors for a false negative rate of legitimate businesses struggling with unreliable mail delivery.
  - octopoc 1y ago
    I have started several small businesses and never had problems with mail delivery except when the business moved. The only thing labor intensive about it is the amount of junk mail, and if you have a P. O. Box then checking that can be labor intensive. What else am I missing?
    - jozvolskyef 1y ago
      Personal experiences with physical mail: - Post office clerk offered to fill in cheque details for me. Recipient didn't receive the payment and sued the broke 18 year-old me. The clerk likely pocketed the money. This was over a decade ago, but coincidentally a Czech post office clerk was sentenced this week for pocketing ~$140k over a 2-year period. - The recipient's lawsuit letter didn't reach me in time and was automatically considered delivered, causing further complications. - DVLA refused to send mail to non-royal mail PO boxes even if the address is the official business address (UK), preventing international travel with the vehicle. - On a separate occasion, striking Royal Mail workers prevented me from travelling internationally by delaying the delivery of my driving license. - I used to live in an apartment with an awkwardly positioned letter box. My mail would end up in random places, usually the neighbours' more easily accessible letter box. - Every now and then my mailbox contains mail addressed to adjacent buildings. I also help manage a small B2C family business that is on its third address at the moment. We're renting a small section of a larger shop that is within a commercial estate. We don't have access to mail delivered to the official address. It could probably done, but it may be complicated. > What else am I missing? Royal Mail is one of the largest employers in the UK.
  - account42 1y ago
    If you don't have reliable mail delivery, you don't have a business. This is especially true for your online presence in Germany where an address at which you can receive mail is a legal requirement.
imhoguy 1y ago
> but also claim the Google Maps listing using the website. And they may even comply with "Delivery-only food brands" policy [0] of Google Business Profile. Although I think their strategy it is stepping on thin ice and risking ban, including search index ban of the main domain. [0] https://support.google.com/business/answer/3038177?sjid=12443851780345296083-EU#chains&zippy=%2Cchains-brands https://support.google.com/business/answer/3038177?sjid=1244...
- jeroenhd 1y ago
  > Diese Restaurants müssen ihre Einzugsgebiete hinzufügen und die Adresse in ihrem Unternehmensprofil ausblenden, um Kunden nicht zu irritieren. Not removing the address from their delivery listings seems like a straight-up violation of Google's policy.
like_any_other 1y ago
This sounds like criminal fraud.
jeroenhd 1y ago
I doubt they go out of their way to pretend to be the restaurants they target. That would make for a very quick and easy fraud case. It'd be much safer if Google were to just take the first plausible website for truth unless proven otherwise, and the first plausible website happens to be the one Lieferando registers. If Google were a responsible company, this wouldn't even be possible. You'd need to enter something they send you over the physical mail to verify that you do indeed do business from a specific address. From there on you'd be able to verify the phone number as well. Google's tendency to display scraped data as facts is what empowers companies like Just Eat Takeaway/Lieferando/Thuisbezorgd in their abuse.
fsflover 1y ago
Related recent discussion thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44094784 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44094784

by ctxc 1y ago

rollcat 1y ago

Agreed. Search engine results is what gives a domain name credibility. EU has been going hard on "gatekeepers" recently. Good regulation could fix this. E.g. make Google verify each address by sending the business a form in a self-addressed, stamped envelope.

tom1337 1y ago
Back in the days Google verified businesses by sending a postcard to the address you have created your business at. The postcard had a verification code which you’d need to enter. Sometimes you'd also had to revalidate the adress ownership every now and then. Unfortunately they do not seem to be doing this anymore.
- sampullman 1y ago
  I had to do this a few years ago, I'm surprised it's not done that way anymore.
- barbazoo 1y ago
  Probably got in the way of them making all the money.
esperent 1y ago
When I registered my business on Google maps they said they were going to send a postcard with a code on it to verify us. This was about 3 years ago. But they never actually did as far as I know, unless one of my colleagues handled it without telling me.
lolinder 1y ago
Google should be forced to do this, but also I'm pretty sure that this behavior by Lieferando breaks existing laws that just need to be enforced.
jozvolskyef 1y ago
Physical mail, too, is a source of gatekeeping and bureaucracy. It is labour-intensive, expensive, and you are trading your false positive rate of digital impostors for a false negative rate of legitimate businesses struggling with unreliable mail delivery.
- octopoc 1y ago
  I have started several small businesses and never had problems with mail delivery except when the business moved. The only thing labor intensive about it is the amount of junk mail, and if you have a P. O. Box then checking that can be labor intensive. What else am I missing?
  - jozvolskyef 1y ago
    Personal experiences with physical mail: - Post office clerk offered to fill in cheque details for me. Recipient didn't receive the payment and sued the broke 18 year-old me. The clerk likely pocketed the money. This was over a decade ago, but coincidentally a Czech post office clerk was sentenced this week for pocketing ~$140k over a 2-year period. - The recipient's lawsuit letter didn't reach me in time and was automatically considered delivered, causing further complications. - DVLA refused to send mail to non-royal mail PO boxes even if the address is the official business address (UK), preventing international travel with the vehicle. - On a separate occasion, striking Royal Mail workers prevented me from travelling internationally by delaying the delivery of my driving license. - I used to live in an apartment with an awkwardly positioned letter box. My mail would end up in random places, usually the neighbours' more easily accessible letter box. - Every now and then my mailbox contains mail addressed to adjacent buildings. I also help manage a small B2C family business that is on its third address at the moment. We're renting a small section of a larger shop that is within a commercial estate. We don't have access to mail delivered to the official address. It could probably done, but it may be complicated. > What else am I missing? Royal Mail is one of the largest employers in the UK.
- account42 1y ago
  If you don't have reliable mail delivery, you don't have a business. This is especially true for your online presence in Germany where an address at which you can receive mail is a legal requirement.

imhoguy 1y ago

> but also claim the Google Maps listing using the website. And they may even comply with "Delivery-only food brands" policy [0] of Google Business Profile. Although I think their strategy it is stepping on thin ice and risking ban, including search index ban of the main domain. [0] https://support.google.com/business/answer/3038177?sjid=12443851780345296083-EU#chains&zippy=%2Cchains-brands https://support.google.com/business/answer/3038177?sjid=1244...

jeroenhd 1y ago
> Diese Restaurants müssen ihre Einzugsgebiete hinzufügen und die Adresse in ihrem Unternehmensprofil ausblenden, um Kunden nicht zu irritieren. Not removing the address from their delivery listings seems like a straight-up violation of Google's policy.

like_any_other 1y ago

This sounds like criminal fraud.

jeroenhd 1y ago

I doubt they go out of their way to pretend to be the restaurants they target. That would make for a very quick and easy fraud case. It'd be much safer if Google were to just take the first plausible website for truth unless proven otherwise, and the first plausible website happens to be the one Lieferando registers. If Google were a responsible company, this wouldn't even be possible. You'd need to enter something they send you over the physical mail to verify that you do indeed do business from a specific address. From there on you'd be able to verify the phone number as well. Google's tendency to display scraped data as facts is what empowers companies like Just Eat Takeaway/Lieferando/Thuisbezorgd in their abuse.

fsflover 1y ago

Related recent discussion thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44094784 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44094784