4 ms·

Random users can update business profile numbers and Google publishes them without asking the number's owner for permission? Seems like a huge oversight.

mcv 1y ago
Also a nice opportunity to steal a company's business. Didn't some food delivery service get their own phone numbers listed for various restaurants a few years ago?
- jfoster 1y ago
  Not sure about phone numbers, but some of them were creating "websites" for restaurants.
  - zelphirkalt 1y ago
    It is so ridiculous how that works. Just imagine for a second that you make a lieferando fake website and bring that online and somehow manage to make the URL look alike. How quickly the lawsuits would be on your ass. Yet according to one of the top level comments, nothing is done here, when lieferando does this and even throws in some identity theft.
- DidYaWipe 1y ago
  Yes. I always bring this up when people in forums start talking about using these scumbag food-delivery operators.
onli 1y ago
Not an oversight, illegal publishing of PI obtained without permission.
- o11c 1y ago
  Only businesses have rights and thus may need to give permission. Individuals are considered common property. Laws are useless when you live in a country that doesn't care about enforcing them.
- rplnt 1y ago
  They got the permission to publish it. Are they required to verify the number ownership though?
  - onli 1y ago
    The author of the article and owner of the data says he does not give permission, so no, I think they don't.
  - saalweachter 1y ago
    The tricky part is that the most straight forward verification -- call the number, ask "is this Bob's Shop?" -- fails immediately if Alice picks up and says "yes".
ferngodfather 1y ago
If the owner isn't registered with Google business, yes. Other users (local guides) are asked to confirm the change. If they are registered, the request goes to the business owner to approve in my experience. We used to get lots of phantom requests telling us our opening hours had changed but if you're registered you can just decline them.
- saghm 1y ago
  This sounds like you're either forced to work with them, or they can just publish pretty much anything and claim plausible deniability about whether it's true or not?
  - ferngodfather 1y ago
    I guess but what's the alternative? Either leave the info out or make maps paid to cover the cost of human reviewers.
    - saghm 1y ago
      The alternative is just only including info from registered businesses. If a third party provides info on an unregistered business, Google could reach out to the business to confirm and ask if they want to register. Unless they say yes, they can just not include it. Having a smaller set of correct information is better than a larger set of mixed correct and incorrect information is better for pretty much everyone...other than Google, of course.
- AStonesThrow 1y ago
  I am a Local Guide and Google never prompts me to confirm anything. Local Guides are ordinary unpaid Google accounts who submit reviews, photos, and other edits as I’ve detailed here. We are sometimes prompted to answer questions, but only with a blank to fill in. https://support.google.com/maps/answer/7084895?hl=en https://support.google.com/maps/answer/7084895?hl=en Google says "We review all the edits you make."
  - 1y ago
strogonoff 1y ago
You’d think users can update business information on Google Maps. Instead, most of the times when you correct, say, working hours, it just gets rejected by the business owner who wants people to keep traveling there in the evening just to be turned away or see the closed doors because their staff goes home early every day.
- AStonesThrow 1y ago
  But wait, there’s more crowdsourcing! Google Maps actually processes historical data about how busy the location is throughout the hours and each day of the week. You can find this rendered as a little bar graph with a blurb describing the current estimate. This is believed to be aggregated from everyone’s Android devices reporting their locations in a very small radius. Also, Maps asks its users to answer extended questions about amenities. Such as: parking types, accessibility features, kid-friendly, vegan/vegetarian. When I am on board a bus or light rail train, there is information about how full it is, what temperature, accessibility, etc. They are tracked in real time because the transit authority shares their live telemetry with Google. Once, Google had demonstrably wrong schedule information and I discovered that it reflected the official website’s version. (It was reporting every train canceled, but they were actually running.) When I worked in an office in 2012, we were trying to get our arms around various listings in 3rd party "Yellow Pages" publications, on paper and online. It seems that compiling business listings has been around a long time. And every business needs a Social Media manager to be aware of their footprint and manage multiple sites like this. Yelp, TripAdvisor, you name it.
  - strogonoff 1y ago
    In a dense area where there’s 5 shops within less than a stone’s throw (pardon my reference) away from each other or on different floors of a building, this mechanism does not work. Besides, if the place is “not busy”, that’s when I want to go—who likes to wait in queues?
varun_ch 1y ago
There’s a (somewhat dramatic) TED talk about this oversight from a few years ago: https://youtu.be/5c6AADI7Pb4 https://youtu.be/5c6AADI7Pb4
yencabulator 1y ago
You can also change the address of a business, or mark them closed.

mcv 1y ago

Also a nice opportunity to steal a company's business. Didn't some food delivery service get their own phone numbers listed for various restaurants a few years ago?

jfoster 1y ago
Not sure about phone numbers, but some of them were creating "websites" for restaurants.
- zelphirkalt 1y ago
  It is so ridiculous how that works. Just imagine for a second that you make a lieferando fake website and bring that online and somehow manage to make the URL look alike. How quickly the lawsuits would be on your ass. Yet according to one of the top level comments, nothing is done here, when lieferando does this and even throws in some identity theft.
DidYaWipe 1y ago
Yes. I always bring this up when people in forums start talking about using these scumbag food-delivery operators.

onli 1y ago

Not an oversight, illegal publishing of PI obtained without permission.

o11c 1y ago
Only businesses have rights and thus may need to give permission. Individuals are considered common property. Laws are useless when you live in a country that doesn't care about enforcing them.
rplnt 1y ago
They got the permission to publish it. Are they required to verify the number ownership though?
- onli 1y ago
  The author of the article and owner of the data says he does not give permission, so no, I think they don't.
- saalweachter 1y ago
  The tricky part is that the most straight forward verification -- call the number, ask "is this Bob's Shop?" -- fails immediately if Alice picks up and says "yes".

ferngodfather 1y ago

If the owner isn't registered with Google business, yes. Other users (local guides) are asked to confirm the change. If they are registered, the request goes to the business owner to approve in my experience. We used to get lots of phantom requests telling us our opening hours had changed but if you're registered you can just decline them.

saghm 1y ago
This sounds like you're either forced to work with them, or they can just publish pretty much anything and claim plausible deniability about whether it's true or not?
- ferngodfather 1y ago
  I guess but what's the alternative? Either leave the info out or make maps paid to cover the cost of human reviewers.
  - saghm 1y ago
    The alternative is just only including info from registered businesses. If a third party provides info on an unregistered business, Google could reach out to the business to confirm and ask if they want to register. Unless they say yes, they can just not include it. Having a smaller set of correct information is better than a larger set of mixed correct and incorrect information is better for pretty much everyone...other than Google, of course.
AStonesThrow 1y ago
I am a Local Guide and Google never prompts me to confirm anything. Local Guides are ordinary unpaid Google accounts who submit reviews, photos, and other edits as I’ve detailed here. We are sometimes prompted to answer questions, but only with a blank to fill in. https://support.google.com/maps/answer/7084895?hl=en https://support.google.com/maps/answer/7084895?hl=en Google says "We review all the edits you make."
- 1y ago

strogonoff 1y ago

You’d think users can update business information on Google Maps. Instead, most of the times when you correct, say, working hours, it just gets rejected by the business owner who wants people to keep traveling there in the evening just to be turned away or see the closed doors because their staff goes home early every day.

AStonesThrow 1y ago
But wait, there’s more crowdsourcing! Google Maps actually processes historical data about how busy the location is throughout the hours and each day of the week. You can find this rendered as a little bar graph with a blurb describing the current estimate. This is believed to be aggregated from everyone’s Android devices reporting their locations in a very small radius. Also, Maps asks its users to answer extended questions about amenities. Such as: parking types, accessibility features, kid-friendly, vegan/vegetarian. When I am on board a bus or light rail train, there is information about how full it is, what temperature, accessibility, etc. They are tracked in real time because the transit authority shares their live telemetry with Google. Once, Google had demonstrably wrong schedule information and I discovered that it reflected the official website’s version. (It was reporting every train canceled, but they were actually running.) When I worked in an office in 2012, we were trying to get our arms around various listings in 3rd party "Yellow Pages" publications, on paper and online. It seems that compiling business listings has been around a long time. And every business needs a Social Media manager to be aware of their footprint and manage multiple sites like this. Yelp, TripAdvisor, you name it.
- strogonoff 1y ago
  In a dense area where there’s 5 shops within less than a stone’s throw (pardon my reference) away from each other or on different floors of a building, this mechanism does not work. Besides, if the place is “not busy”, that’s when I want to go—who likes to wait in queues?

varun_ch 1y ago

There’s a (somewhat dramatic) TED talk about this oversight from a few years ago: https://youtu.be/5c6AADI7Pb4 https://youtu.be/5c6AADI7Pb4

yencabulator 1y ago

You can also change the address of a business, or mark them closed.